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101 Atheist Quotes

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1. Marvelous!!!!

   

   hendoc

   16 Feb 08 at 6:16 am (GMT)
2. oh leave christians alone, everyone is entilted to have an imaginary friend.

   

   derek

   16 Feb 08 at 7:04 am (GMT)
3. Excellent work, keep it up

   

   Hussein

   16 Feb 08 at 7:50 am (GMT)
4. Number 77 is broken.

   

   Lee

   16 Feb 08 at 8:12 am (GMT)
5. awesome post, but you know the first ‘believer’ who comes across this will whine about being persecuted; even though this is just a list of quotes. keep up the good work!

   

   Josh Battin

   16 Feb 08 at 8:28 am (GMT)
6. I just stumbled upon this site. Next time I need a good laugh, I’ll come back. Keep it up….LOL!!!

   

   TheLoneRider

   16 Feb 08 at 8:29 am (GMT)
7. Great List of quotes!

   “Faith is belief in the absence of reason”, I’m not sure where I heard this quote, but I believe its a Sam Harris quote.

   

   Andrew

   16 Feb 08 at 9:13 am (GMT)
8. great work..!

   i hv mailed the link to my entire office.. (i work in a bank..!)

   my contribuion:

   “Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand” - Karl Marx

   

   Dreadnought

   16 Feb 08 at 11:30 am (GMT)
9. awesome!!

   

   srinath

   16 Feb 08 at 12:00 pm (GMT)
10. [...] 101 Atheist Quotes (tags: atheism quotes) [...]

    

    Dagelijkse dosis links 16-02-2008

    16 Feb 08 at 6:17 pm (GMT)
11. Typo in 82

    

    Andonymous Coward

    16 Feb 08 at 10:33 pm (GMT)
12. [...] pero no dejo de pensar que son una soberana estupidez), quizas le haga gracia alguna de las 101 Citas Ateas publicadas en The Atheist Blogger. Una de mis favoritas : On the first day, man created God. - [...]

    

    plasticweirdo. » 101 citas ateas.

    16 Feb 08 at 10:45 pm (GMT)
13. Always nice to read of the ignorance that religious people in some cases posses, but then again it make me feel sad. Although i don’t think you should take religion away from those people, because it is all that they have. Religion isn’t always as bad as it is described in some of the quotes in here. It can really help people who don’t have the surplus to not have something to believe in.

    This is indeed nothing but an imaginary friend, but it helps (some) people.

    Some people just take it one or two steps further, by believing so strongly in their religion, that it becomes ignorance. Those are the ones i really feel sorry for. People who thinks of Religion as a solid alternative to Science.

    I don’t mind people have their god and prays a prayer for the dinner or go to church in Sundays as long as they don’t disturbs other people.
    In this case religion really is a Pandora’s Bible.

    RAmen

    

    Emil

    17 Feb 08 at 2:42 pm (GMT)
14. religious types are ‘persecuted’ (mind you i don’t agree with alot about homosexuality etc, from the heart, but i’m more of a mind than heart so i just go snip and then it’s personal)…
    dostoyevsky was religious. nietzsche went nuts and hugged a horse (ala crime and punishment)
    i don’t agree with alot of the crap but some of the best — has come about because of religion, they try to provide, which is more than alot of other people do, and religion is useful for developing a life.
    so, at least where i’m at, where people sorta have manners about these things, i can get by, and i’ve made my peace with it; anyway, awesomeness :)

    

    jeff

    17 Feb 08 at 5:56 pm (GMT)
15. [...] 101 Atheist Quotes | The Atheist Blogger Interessant (tags: quotes atheism religion) [...]

    

    marnik.org » links for 2008-02-17

    17 Feb 08 at 11:22 pm (GMT)
16. This is one of the web’s most interesting stories on Mon 18th Feb 2008…

    These are the web’s most talked about URLs on Mon 18th Feb 2008. The current winner is …..

    

    purrl.net |** urls that purr **|

    18 Feb 08 at 3:03 am (GMT)
17. Here’s a good one:

    “When Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act,
    they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things.
    But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy
    sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that’s going to make him blind.
    And [I ask them], ‘Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball?
    Because that doesn’t seem to me to coincide with a God who’s full of mercy.”
    -David Attenborough

    One more:

    Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
    -Napoleon

    

    Buford Twain

    18 Feb 08 at 3:32 am (GMT)
18. Nice list, and its good to see it getting some publicity, ever bit helps.

    Number 87 has some extra words and spelling mistake

    So why can we just skip god the idea of god and go straigth to earth?

    Should probably be something like

    So why can’t we just skip the idea of god and go straight to earth?

    

    Alientheist

    18 Feb 08 at 6:57 am (GMT)
19. #86:
    “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the people.”

    

    nicholas j

    18 Feb 08 at 7:01 am (GMT)
20. “Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.”

    Arthur Schopenhauer

    

    michael c

    18 Feb 08 at 7:11 am (GMT)
21. #33 was not said by Steve Buscemi. It was him, but he was playing a character in the movie “The Island”

    

    Bright

    18 Feb 08 at 7:17 am (GMT)
22. Religion gives answers to two hard questions: “What happens after I die?” and “Do we have free will and why?”

    Those questions aren’t really hard questions though, but rather their logical and obvious answers are far too depressing for most people.

    Religion is just another excuse for not facing reality.
    Also atheism is just another excuse for stating the depressingly obvious.

    

    mytoz

    18 Feb 08 at 8:47 am (GMT)
23. I had no time to answer point by point to all the quotes. But here are the first 20. Let me know on email your counter-rebuttals.

    1. The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. - George Bernard Shaw

    - this comparison is unfair; faith is more like the happiness of love; a life without love is not worth living

    2. Faith means not wanting to know what is true. - Friedrich Nietzsche

    - unless you are a top level quantum physicist or neurologist all you can do is “BELIEVE” in what others say; if you can’t understand Schroedinger’s equation, how can you talk about the nature of the universe? I would say that true ateists must have an IQ of over 120

    3. I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. - Frank Lloyd Wright

    - true; all is God (by definition)

    4. We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. - Gene Roddenberry

    - that is one bad way of defining God; there are other definitions - for example - “God is Oneness expressing itself in Diversity” - with that defitition the above quote would have been a non starter

    5. To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov

    - true; many stupid people find an escape in “faith”; in fact they getting drunk with pure water; you need a philosopher’s mind and a mystic’s heart to approach God

    6. A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. - Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)

    - haha excellent!; lot’s of division going on in churches; rivalries, obtusity and such

    7. Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca the Younger

    - presumptuous; many “wise” man believed in God; religion on the other hand might be watered down, distorted spirituality; or it might be genuine, too - depends on who and practices it and how it is understood

    8. Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. - Anonymous

    - not so; even in philosophy you need presumptions; in math you need axioms; you cannot apply reason without a basic set of agreed “thruths”; trying to place a divide in a place where is a continuous link; religion and philosophy are not separate like this quote suggests

    9. Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends. - Woody Allen

    - only in the world of his head

    10. If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. - Isaac Asimov

    - so true

    11. Belief in the supernatural reflects a failure of the imagination. - Edward Abbey

    - 300 years ago a cell phone would have been seen as supernatural; you might just believe in yet undiscovered concepts

    12. With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg

    - not so; it takes dualism; me vs them mentality; we are right and they are wrong mentality; religion has it, but so do many other atheists; Stalin for example believed he was supposed to tell everyone how and where to live - and look what disaster he created

    13. I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence. - Doug McLeod

    - haha :-) nice

    14. The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri

    - forcing a divide where there is none; division is BAD; black and white is BAD; grays, subtle nuances GOOD

    15. Since the Bible and the church are obviously mistaken in telling us where we came from, how can we trust them to tell us where we are going? - Anonymous

    - the creation part is just an allegory; eternity in hell for sinners is an abomination which was voted into the church dogma for political reasons (mass control)

    16. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

    - a very slippery slope, indeed; yet we are all accountable for our deeds; no worry

    17. The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. - Delos B. McKown

    - conclusion: radio waves are probably a myth!

    18. Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. - Anonymous

    - a mind recognizing beauty and insight can do in a second what a working had does in a lifetime (just remember Einstein and how he have us nuclear power); prayer - insight - meditation - whatever you call it, is what makes us better than robotic drones

    19. Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, even if religion vanished; but religious superstition dismounts all these and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men. - Francis Bacon

    - superstitions are bad :-) but that doesn’t say people shouldn’t be religious; there might be a better religion than Christianity somewhere

    20. The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins

    - and that is what came out of the myth and legends of populations that lived 2000 - 3000 years ago; so why use that book? try and put forth a proper concept about God!

    

    Visarga

    18 Feb 08 at 10:26 am (GMT)
24. The Atheist Blogger | CommentURL.com…

    101 quotes that make sense The biblical story of Jesus covers his birth and…

    

    CommentURL.com | A world of interesting web pages

    18 Feb 08 at 10:56 am (GMT)
25. Visarga,

    I am not going to “counter-rebuttal” any of your points for the simple and valid reason that this is a list of 101 atheist quotes, nothing more. I never said at any point that I agreed with any of them, although the majority of them I can understand and relate to. I also never said I wanted a debate. The quotes are there for the purpose of being there. They do not need to be countered since they are not “points against theism”, nor are they points agianst anything at all. They are a collection of numerous people’s opinions.

    -Adrian

    

    Adrian Hayter

    18 Feb 08 at 12:36 pm (GMT)
26. [...] 101 Atheist Quotes (From The Atheist Blogger) Monday, February 18th, 2008 at 3:35 pm | Uncategorized | RSS 2.0 for comments | Trackback URL [...]

    

    Pretentious Schmuckery

    18 Feb 08 at 2:35 pm (GMT)
27. Radio waves are not invisible… Just because the human eye cannot see them it does not mean that they are invisible if they can be proven existent by instruments, which for example can see such colors with that long wavelength.

    What I am trying to say is, that many of your statements are build on misunderstandings heavily influenced by your subjective opinion and/or faith. I assume you are being heavily sarcastic in some cases though…

    Of course every thinking being should be allowed to have their own opinion, but lest it not be so self convincing, that it becomes ignorance. Facts can disprove of any opinion that strides against it.

    Again, Religion is without doubt wonderful, but it is never to be superior than logical facts.

    RAmen

    

    Emil

    18 Feb 08 at 6:07 pm (GMT)
28. My favorite quote (from Wicked Jester Clothing, as stated by Thorin) *Why is there enough religion to incite war, but not enough religion to instill tolerance*

    It may not be quite “atheistic,” but I believe it makes its point, nonetheless.

    

    Pandora

    19 Feb 08 at 4:56 am (GMT)
29. Some of my favorites:

    “The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what’s true.” –Carl Sagan

    “For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” –Carl Sagan

    “We’ve tended in our cosmologies to make things familiar. Despite all our best efforts, we’ve not been very inventive. In the West, Heaven is placid and fluffy, and Hell is like the inside of a volcano. In many stories, both realms are governed by dominance hierarchies headed by gods or devils. Monotheists talked about the king of kings. In every culture we imagined something like our own political system running the Universe. Few found the similarity suspicious.” -Carl Sagan

    “You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe.” -Carl Sagan (more great Sagan quotes on religion available here: http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_CSagan.htm)

    “I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own — a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty.” –Albert Einstein

    “A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.”-Albert Einstein

    “A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.” –Nietzsche

    “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children are smart.” -Henry Mencken

    “If I look over my life, every single step of maturing for me, every single one, has had the exact same common denominator, and that was accepting what was true over what I wished were true.” –Julia Sweeney

    “The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way. Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic.”
    – Bertrand Russell

    “The whole conception of a God is a conception derived from the ancient oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men…. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages.”
    – Bertrand Russell

    “Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.” –Bertrand Russell

    

    M

    19 Feb 08 at 5:02 am (GMT)
30. i love your list;here’s another quote you might like :
    “For those who believe in God,most of the big questions are answered.
    But for those of us who can’t readily accept the God formula,the big answers don’t remain stone written…
    We adjust to new conditions and discoveries.We are pliable.Love need to be a command or faith a dictum.I am my own God.
    We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church,state and our educational system.We are here to drink beer.We are here to kill war.We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
    -Charles Bukowski-

    

    pigassus

    19 Feb 08 at 7:38 am (GMT)
31. “As with dogs, so with gods - by and large, you should blame the owners.”
    Martin Rowson

    

    Mac

    21 Feb 08 at 11:10 am (GMT)
32. “Religion is Mythology Misunderstood.”

    Joseph Campbell
    From the book “The Hero’s Journey — Joseph Campbell On His Life and Work”

    

    foresthawk

    22 Feb 08 at 6:14 am (GMT)
33. Religious war -
    ‘My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend’.

    

    Martyn Johnston

    22 Feb 08 at 2:57 pm (GMT)
34. there are some mistakes such az number 101 which should be
    ‘Isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to
    believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?’
    and my reference is the beginning of the book ‘the god delusion’ written by Richard Dawkins.
    and also number 77 should be
    ‘When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.’
    the same reference page 5.
    and thanks a lot.

    

    pedro

    23 Feb 08 at 7:51 pm (GMT)
35. pedro,

    Thanks for pointing those out. I guess the source I copied no 101 from was a bit off, but I swear I had the entire quote for no 77 up at some point…I must have deleted part of it by accident!

    Cheers again,
    Adrian

    

    Adrian Hayter

    23 Feb 08 at 7:56 pm (GMT)
36. We all like a good laugh at the expense of stupidity, but never forget that, where your rights are concerned, Christians are dangerous.

    

    hendoc

    24 Feb 08 at 5:31 am (GMT)
37. These are great quotes. Though atheism, like any ideology (which is the modern form of a religion) is just a belief system. Like any other belief system which will be dogmatically defended.
    What humors me too is a lot of these quotes are reactionism to a creator-god, as if they somehow are disappointed with it if there was such a thing, failing to realize that no Gods, but HUMANS created the horror story we call history. And thus no fictional god is to be shoved responsibility too, but just humans.

    So here are some quotes that are anti-BS (which is also anti-religion but also anti-atheism), I hope you get a few laughs and thoughts out of them:
    all are by Robert Anton Wilson

    “Whenever people are certain they understand our peculiar situation here on this planet, it is because they have accepted a religious Faith or a secular Ideology
    (Ideologies are the modern form of Faiths) and just stopped thinking.”

    “Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently.
    Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.”

    “The materialist fundamentalists are funnier than the Christian fundamentalists, because they think they’re rational!”

    “We can all see how other people’s BS (belief system or bullshit :p) makes them blind and “stupid” at times, but we find it very hard to notice how our own BS is doing the same to us. This is what anthropologists call ‘acculturalization.’ Following Gurdjieff, I prefer to call it hypnosis… Every politician knows how to induce hypnosis, and very damned few peple on the whole planet know how to de-hypnotize themselves. The world is not governed by facts or logic. It is governed by BS (belief systems).”

    1. Never believe totally in anybody else’s BS.
    2. Never believe totally in your own BS.

    “In (Gordiano) Bruno’s day the 3 terms were divided up differently, you had science and mysticism on one side, and religion on the other side. Science and mysticism are alike in their struggle against religion. They were both based on experience and respect for the individual. The idea of science and mysticism was go out and discover for yourself. Find out what works, find out how the universe is actually structured and how you relate to the structure of the universe. And so there were basically 2 areas of scientific exploration, the external and the internal. But they were both pursued by the same method, the experimental method.”

    “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort,
    or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”

    “All around one the True Believers trudge by, mouths grim, brows furrowed, ulcers and worse eating at their innards. This desperate company of oddfellows (Thoreau) live in what psychologists call ‘cognitive dissonance.’ Because their reality-maps are, one and all, too small to cover the vast, eerie, amusing world in which we live, they are perpetually frustrated: the world does not live up to their fixed beliefs. They are all convinced that there is something radically wrong with the universe itself, or with the rest of humanity, and they never suspect that the real trouble is in their own rigid and robotic nervous systems.”

    “People have murdered each other, in massive wars and guerilla actions, for many centuries, and still murder each other in the present, over Ideologies and Religions which, stated as propositions, appear neither true nor false to modern logicians - meaningless propositions that look meaningful to the linguistically naive.”

    

    BS

    24 Feb 08 at 12:52 pm (GMT)
38. Amen!
    ooops……….. caught up in a lie!
    I have a collection of these and other TRUTHS

    

    Michael Draga

    24 Feb 08 at 1:16 pm (GMT)
39. Haha. BS, I concur. Love the quotes.

    

    Pandora

    24 Feb 08 at 5:47 pm (GMT)
40. Hmm, great. But who are 90% of these people? I noticed “Anonymous” made quite a few appearances. As a contrast, some famous Theists:

    Aristotle
    Albert Einstein
    George Washington
    Plato
    Leonardo Di Vinci
    CS Lewis
    Benjamin Franklin
    Isaac Newton

    Just a few of the greatest thinkers and statesmen in history…

    Also, I enjoyed quote #27 by Christopher Hitchens: “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof” Such as, say, the assertion that there is no God? Fine, dismissed.

    

    James

    24 Feb 08 at 6:43 pm (GMT)
41. Phenomenal quotes!

    

    Jordan Chand

    24 Feb 08 at 9:34 pm (GMT)
42. Response to Visarga. IQ does not measure intelligence, because intelligence is a vague abstract concept, meaning different things to different people, much like God. IQ tests are culturally biased and only measure logic skills which have one right answer. They cannot measure your performance in situations where there are many possible answers. Having studied Biology at degree level, I cannot differentiate between intelligent behaviour and that of a sufficiently complex machine, which is essentially what organisms are. If God designed us, I would say that he did a pretty shoddy job, much like a cowboy builder. Evolution provides a much better explanation of why we have an appendix and why our eyes seem to be wired backwards.

    The only way to prove the existence of God, is first come up with an objective definition of what God actually is. Then, devise some testable hypotheses based on this definition. However, the existence or non-existence of God is not falsifiable, so therefore unknowable. Unless God decides to make a personal appearance and says worship me or else, I do not feel the need to believe in him or any of the other man-made religions that cause such ridiculous behaviour in people. Every time I look closely at organized religion, I see some kind of political motive designed to manipulate the masses, or primitive beliefs based on ignorance of how the universe actually works.

    Einstein did not give us nuclear power. He discovered the mass-energy equation which showed that nuclear power was possible. As far as I know he played no
    part in the actual invention of nuclear power, and was horrified when he realized how his discoveries could be used to make the most terrible weapons in our history.

    

    Nick

    24 Feb 08 at 10:42 pm (GMT)
43. Sorry, my bad. Einstein appears to have spent 2 days working on the atomic bomb. I doubt he really achieved much in 2 days work though. His contribution was purely theoretical.

    

    Nick

    24 Feb 08 at 10:49 pm (GMT)
44. Nice quotes.

    

    theBlueTick

    25 Feb 08 at 11:00 am (GMT)
45. I’m sorry that I can’t write in English what I want to, but these quotes are great.
    Have you ever thought why communism hates religion? Because it’s religion itself and doesn’t want to share its power. The power and only the power is the only object of any religion.

    

    Zarko

    25 Feb 08 at 9:24 pm (GMT)
46. James: Criticizing anonymous quotes merely because they’re anonymous is very revealing. I’m guessing that you are - like many a theist - a sucker for arguments from authority. Quotable quotes ring true even when you scribble out the byline. Oh btw, Benjamin Franklin and Albert Einstein weren’t “Theists” (sic) they were deists. If you think that’s splitting hairs take it up with them. htp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin#Virtue.2C_religion_and_personal_beliefs
    htp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#Religious_views

    

    BrianK

    27 Feb 08 at 4:07 am (GMT)
47. Sasha Cohen Video…

    Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin…..

    

    Sasha Cohen Video

    2 Mar 08 at 12:21 pm (GMT)
48. James:

    You are using the statement “What can be asserted witout proof, can be dismissed without proof.” in a wrong way. What you are trying to do with your logical presentation is the opposite of what the quote says.
    You are asserting a dismission, which conflicts. Hope you see the paradox, and see why such a statement doesn’t carry any meaning.

    RAmen

    

    Emil

    3 Mar 08 at 2:46 pm (GMT)
49. I am in no way religious, but using logic - faith is a feeling and using something as interpretive as words to quantify a feeling leaves those words hallow and useless, allowing them to be used in any way the reader sees fit.

    Every thought that one has throughout the day, even their life, is bore in a feeling. What one sees or hears, or even smells or touches, is responded to by a feeling, ones “gut reaction” so to speake. Thus the thought is nothing more than a verbal representation of the feeling.

    Therefore with the very same breathe that one uses to explain or express anything, one also invalidates the very point that they are trying to prove.

    The fundies, you, and yes even me, are all wrong we are trying to express something that is inherently unexpressable, so why even try.

    -p.s.
    - then there is just the overlooming fact that if God created everything: us, the animals, the plants, the world, and the universe, then a “being” of such scope and magnitude would be so far beyond what we know of as existence, that our interaction would be impossible, so once again, why even try.

    

    Boblabla

    3 Mar 08 at 7:24 pm (GMT)
50. Don’t attribute the quote from the Island to Steve Buscemi. Attribute it to the person who wrote it. Steve Buscemi is an actor delivering someone else’s line.

    

    Rhett

    3 Mar 08 at 10:08 pm (GMT)
51. [...] 101 atheist quotes. [...]

    

    “Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends” — Woody Allen | SKIRMISHER

    4 Mar 08 at 3:42 am (GMT)
52. Boblabla,

    I’ve never tried to prove God doesn’t exist, so don’t even go there. Also, “atheistic fundamentalism” doesn’t exist. See my original blog post on my personal blog for an explanation:

    http://adrianhayter.com/2007/12/23/atheistic-fundamentalism/

    

    Adrian Hayter

    4 Mar 08 at 8:14 am (GMT)
53. First off, Adrian I apologise if what I said caused even the slightest bit of anger, that was not my intention,and if you thought that it was I must apologise again, I am sorry. With my comment about “the fundies” that was not refering to Atheism in any way, I was refering to any and all organized religion and doctrine.

    Second, I was not trying to infer that you were trying to prove the inexistance of God, so put away your six shooters. However, you may not be trying to prove that God doesn’t exist, but you are trying to prove “the fundies” wrong in the fact that we should devote ourselves to a “higher power”, i.e. God, or God like figure. I am not going to unload some tripe about how I believe in a higher power that isn’t a God, that I believe in everthing and everyones potential, that everyone has something to contribute. The truth is I believe in one thing and one thing only, myself, it is the only thing that I can say with absolute truth, because I am only capable of knowing myself. I CANNOT know anyone or anything else, I can only know who you wish me to know, who you wish me to see. (That and saying everyone has something to contribute is the same as saying everyone has to contribute something, but that’s off topic.)

    My previous post was alluring to my point that arguing about what you do believe or don’t believe in ultimatly proves nothing more than what you do or don’t believe in. This belief that if I prove the fact that I believe in something somehow proves that what I believe in is real, is utterly unfounded. I can prove the fact I personally don’t believe that the sun exists simply by saying “I don’t believe that the sun exists”, but that in no way makes the sun disappear, or strikes the memory of the suns existence from the minds of everyone else for that matter. All it proves is that I’m a loon who doesn’t believe in the sun.

    My problem with organized religion, and even atheism, is that if I’m not one thing than I’m the other. If I believe in God then I am religious, if i don’t believe in God than I am atheist. Even if I am neither, I don’t believe in God but I do believe that there is a “higher order” greater than myself, I’m agnostic. What I was trying to introduce was the idea that does a label allow you to understand the object any better? Is the ability to understand something contingent on the label? Is the label needed or just wanted?

    A few more questions before you verbally berate me how ever you see fit, if Gods existence were to be proven tomorrow, beyond any doubt that it is God (be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Norse, Celtic, ect. or even Scientology(HA!)) will any of you change your beliefs, in any way? Now, if tomorrow, when you wake up, Gods existence is proven, in everyones eyes, without a doubt to be false, that He did in fact never exist, that for thousands of years we have had it undeniably wrong, do you think that they will change their beliefs in any way?
    Of course not, on both accounts, none, absolutly none of you will change even in the slightest aspect of your beliefs. This is what I meant by “why even try”.

    -p.s.
    -is “atheistic fundamentalism” anything like “scheduled anarchism”?

    

    Boblabla

    5 Mar 08 at 11:53 pm (GMT)
54. Boblabla,

    You are wrong in a few points there:

    1) I’m not trying to prove the “fundies” wrong in anything other than things that can be proven. I can’t prove God doesn’t exist so I can’t try and prove that, but I can try and prove them wrong about Evolution, something which has been proven (or at least vastly supported) by science many many times, and yet the “fundies” still deny it.

    2) Your “problem” with organised religion is completely unfounded and not thought out properly. Firstly, if you believe in God you are not necessarily religious, but you are a theist. Please remember that being theist doesn’t align you with any religion, although you can just as much as any atheist can align them with religions (such as Buddhism for example). Your definition of agnostic is also wrong. An agnostic is someone who

    “holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.”

    Put simply, someone who believes that the existence of God is unknowable and therefore refuses to be either theist or atheist.

    3) If God’s existence were proven beyond a doubt tomorrow, then technically speaking my disbelief in God would become knowledge of God, and so belief wouldn’t even come into it, but I can see where you are coming from. Yes, if God was proved to exist, then I would “believe” as much as I “believe” in Evolution. I’m a rational free thinker, not a closed minded moron :P

    4) If God’s existence was proven to be false, then I would expect all the free thinking theists (of which there are only a fraction) to renounce their faith. I doubt very much many of the fundamentalists would, seeing as they outright deny Evolution with such ignorance.

    5) Atheistic fundamentalism doesn’t exist since it implies that atheists have a belief system that powers their thoughts and actions, which simply isn’t true.

    

    Adrian Hayter

    6 Mar 08 at 12:36 am (GMT)
55. -Adrian
    Since you have decided to not focus on what I have said but rather the inaccurate nature of what I have said, I am forced to question what you have said. I must apologise for this is not how I wished this conversation to be protrayed, as a dual.

    Why so angry?

    Why must you insist that I am wrong?

    Do you think that if you prove me wrong, then you must be right?

    Can a rational free thinker, such as yourself, not even entertain the possibilities that I have put forth?

    I know that I may be wrong in my beliefs, that everything that I have built my entire process of thinking upon may not be right, can you not say the same?

    Or do you dare not say the same out of some illset grasp at saving face?
    No, it’s not that, you care not for saving face, because if you did you would have asked for others apporval of your comments, but you have done no such thing.

    Is it the sheer jest of battle that drives you forth?
    That would explain your compulsion to treat it as such, regardless of the fact that I have already pointed out that my intentions are not to anger you, I have even gone as far as apologising to you, a person I do not know, nor will probably ever meet, for something that I did not need to apologise for. And yet you still attack me - :P - no, it can’t be battle that is rousing you, because I believe you when you say that you are a rational free thinker, and as such you would recognize the irrationality of battle.

    So then what is it, what is this momentum leading you to be so forceful in your beliefs?
    So unwavering in your lack of being able to even acknowledge the mere possibility of something outside of your realm of truth?

    I have presented nothing more that alternative thoughts, albeit contary thoughts, but alternative none the less, and you have fired back in such fury as to not just contradict me, but list in numeration where I have left your path. You wish to prove me wrong to such a degree that you willingly chomp down on any and all inaccuracies with such tenacity that I can almost hear your teeth clanging together by my ear, you even go in to as much detail as to correct my definitions.

    This over whelming sence of you are right, and I am wrong is so profound that you only focus on what is wrong with my statement, but point out only that you “can see where I am coming from” not even know where I am coming from, merely see. Which I might add is quickly followed by yet another personal attack.

    Is it that what I say sounds a little too close to spirtualism for comfort?
    Or is it the fact that what I say cannot be definitivly proven?

    If God were to be proven true and you say that your belief wouldn’t even come in to it, than why must they renouce their faith if God is proven false? How came they must give up, wheras you only gain?

    You also say that the fundamentalists out right deny Evolution with such ignorance, but is that not what you are doing to me, denying me with such ignorance?

    And finally, with your last point all that must be said is thank you, thank you ever so much for proving a point that I did not even bring up. No where have I ever even elluded to atheistic fundamentalism, but that seems to be all that you wish to talk about. Now as for this “belief system that powers their thoughts and actions” is not rationality, free minded thinking, and evolution such a system as to impower your very thoughts and actions as your beliefs call for it; you have been driving into almost every thought that you express that atheism and fundamentalism cannot co-exist, and to prove me wrong to such a fervent level that would leave no doubt, in at least your eyes, that you are right, you attack not only my beliefs but me personally, reaffirming your own over anyone elses.

    That’s not fundamentalism, that’s extremism bud. (Before you tell me that I am improperly using the term extremism, I am using it in the manner of that any political theory favouring immoderate, uncompromising policies.)

    Now come on and give me yet another list of things that I have gotten wrong, but this time try to present it without the personal attacks, it only helps me when you get angry.

    

    Boblabla

    6 Mar 08 at 10:33 pm (GMT)
56. Uhh, just one comment. Agnostics don’t necessarily believe in a higher power, they don’t believe one way or another.

    I say, “If there’s no God, great; if it turns out there is, I’m going to Hell.”

    

    Pandora

    7 Mar 08 at 12:16 am (GMT)
57. Boblabla,

    …Ok, you are evidently very confused and I would like to point out the following:

    I am NOT angry in any way.

    It seems very strange that you would think otherwise, seeing as the only thing I did was say that some of your points were “wrong”. A teacher who marks a childs maths work as “wrong” isn’t angry, so why should I be???

    I simply disagreed with your accusation that I was trying to prove anything (which I’m not), and the misconception that believing in God automatically makes you religious (which it doesn’t…it makes you theist, something related, but not the same).

    I would also like to point out that you said “A few more questions before you verbally berate me how ever you see fit”, so you were intentionally opening the floor to debate, and then you decide that my response was angry and against yours, and therefore I was some kind of unstable individual, even though you had invited the criticism!

    Ok, now that that is sorted hopefully you understand that I am not angry and you had no need to apologise in the first place.

    To your first point, I thought I focused on answering your questions quite well (did you read the last half of my response?) and the mere fact that I firstly addressed the inaccuracies in your points doesn’t mean the entire response is focused on destroying your views.

    Secondly, I’ve already pointed out that I am not angry, and I can’t see any reason why you would think so in my last few comments, so I personally think you are questioning my stress levels in order to seem like “the good guy” in this debate. A point for future notice: In debates, questioning your opponents mental stability is viewed as bad practice and insulting.

    “Why must you insist that I am wrong?” - For the simply reason that your points about my “agenda” and religion were inaccurate and I wanted to correct your views. Look up the terms “theist”, “atheist”, and “agnostic” in any dictionary and you will see that none of them associate themselves directly with religion.

    “Do you think that if you prove me wrong, then you must be right?” - Only if in proving your points to be wrong, my points are proved right. I might like to point out that your first point about my agenda can’t be proved by anyone else but me, seeing as it is *MY* agenda, and only I know what it is. Your second point about the definitions of the “labels” wasn’t really disproved by me, but by every single dictionary on the planet.

    As a rational free thinker, I believe in what science has told me, so when science disproves your views, I cannot believe in them. It’s not like there is any leeway and I say that I “might” believe in them in case they are actually true. If they are disproved by science, I don’t believe in them. If one day the disproof is proved to be invalid and your points are actually true, I reckon everyone will have a jolly good laugh about the entire thing and get on with their lives.

    “I know that I may be wrong in my beliefs, that everything that I have built my entire process of thinking upon may not be right, can you not say the same?” - Yes of course, but until my points are proved wrong by science (just as they have been proved correct by science) then I am standing by them. The difference between me and you is that you decide to stand by your views even though they were defined as other things many years ago.

    I see no reason to ask for people to approve my comments seeing as they have already been approved by the scientific community, and anyone who thinks I am correct can simply say so or decide not to get involved, it’s not like I am forcing them to…

    Again you attempt to put some kind of agenda behind my debating skills, and as I have pointed out before, doing so is not the way you win debates…its the way you lose them. I’m not going to even dignify your “battle” comment with a response for that exact reason.

    “what is this momentum leading you to be so forceful in your beliefs?” - Proof, as I have said many times before.

    “point out only that you “can see where I am coming from” not even know where I am coming from, merely see. Which I might add is quickly followed by yet another personal attack.” - Ok, you evidently didn’t understand this bit at all. I said I could see where you were coming from (i.e. that you wanted to know if I would ever believe in God is he were proved to be real) which is precisely what you said, so no argument there. I refute your claim that I attacked you though.

    What I said was “I’m a rational free thinker, not a closed minded moron :P” - How does that affect you??? I never called you a closed minded moron, I simply said that I wasn’t one…I mean c’mon, I even added the :P afterwards to show that I was kidding around with the reference!

    What I can’t believe (from reading my response back over again) is that any of it can be construed as any form of attack. I mean, I pretty much answer your questions in agreement for the last bit!

    What I do suggest is you read back over my previous post with a more open mind, and you will see that all my points were perfectly good answers to your questions, and that I didn’t attack you in any way. It was you who started attacking me by questioning my anger.

    

    Adrian Hayter

    7 Mar 08 at 5:24 am (GMT)
58. You two have a very strange ‘argument’ going on. It is pointless to attempt reasoning with the deluded — you both figure out who that is…

    

    Holy Smoke

    8 Mar 08 at 1:09 am (GMT)
59. Who you might see as deluded I might see as revolutionary, and vice versa.

    I could even go as far as to say that the deluded are the only ones who truly see with reason, for they are not subject to morality, nor susceptible to the illusions of control.

    

    Boblabla

    9 Mar 08 at 6:31 pm (GMT)
60. Everyone seems to think that Crhistians are close minded, but, in all reality, so are athiests. Why do you care if I belive in God? Why must you constantly try to change my opinion? Schools, colleges, T.V. personalities, politicians, and even people on their computers try to tell me that I am wrong.
    If I am wrong and there is no God (there is, though) and I live according to the teachings of Jesus. I promote Love, life, honesty, and morality what have I done wrong?
    On the other hand, If I was an atheist (which, clearly I am not) and I turn out to be wrong. I lose everything
    (Adrian Hayter left the comment that Evolution has been “proven” or at least “vastly supported”. Well, it has not been proven. So it must be vastly supported. And there is a large difference between the two, I must say. To say that I don’t agree with it makes me ignorant is very upsetting. You are believing what someone has told you, and I am doing the same. It is clear that you have made no contribution to scientific discovery seeing as how you have enough time to sit in front of your computer and bash people that believe in God. So, how do you know? Are you listening to the “leading authorities”? Most of you believe that the media gives false propagnda to get you to believe what they want you to believe, but Evolution can’t fall into that category! For such a free thinker you sure are close minded.)
    Anyway, I am tired of being labeled “idiot” just because of my way of thought. I think “Free-thinkers” would approach my way of thought a little more open-minded than they do, but maybe being open-minded isn’t a “must-have” for Free-Thinkers.

    

    the_comedianman

    28 Mar 08 at 11:32 pm (GMT)
61. the_comedianman,

    If atheists appear to be trying to “change [your] opinion” as you put, it is only because Christians have tried to change their opinion in the past. We used to hide away in the shadows, which was fine, nobody was harming us. However people started attacking those who came out, and this prompted a massive uprising of freethinking atheists who weren’t going to stand for that sort of behaviour.

    If indeed you live by good morals, promote love, honesty etc, then I have no beef with you, and I doubt many other people will have. However, it is impossible to follow the true Bible and what Jesus preached and still be “moral” by today’s standards. There is nothing “moral” about attacking homosexuals, and yet the Bible condones it. The same thing applies with the attacks made on abortion clinics, it’s just not moral!

    As for your “If I was an atheist, I’d lose everything” argument, I urge you not to even consider using it again! It’s a well known argument called “Pascal’s Wager” and has been debunked so many times its beyond belief that anyone even uses it anymore. If you think you are so safe believing in Jesus, what do you lose if the Muslims turn out to be right?…oh thats right…EVERYTHING! The same goes for every other religion you don’t believe in, and although technically and statistically speaking you have a slightly larger chance of going to “paradise” than me, it’s a very very minor amount.

    My comment on Evolution I suspect you did not fully grasp. Evolution *has* been proven in the context that gravity had been proven. Scientifically speaking nothing can ever be “proven”, but there are certain facts that are just generally accepted by the scientific community, and Evolution is one of them. There is just too much evidence not to admit that Evolution is real, and has happened, and indeed is still happening. If you don’t agree with Evolution, you are essentially ignoring mountains of scientific evidence for it’s existence. Such ignoring of fact is called “ignorance”, and so you are by definition “ignorant”. I’m very sorry if that upsets you, but I like the truth, and nobody should be hidden from it.

    I haven’t made any contribution to the discovery of Evolution no, but I’ve had enough science classes, read enough books, and talked with enough evolutionary biologists to know my way around the subject, whereas if you don’t even belief it, how can you even try and discredit me???

    As for your last point, I think you will find that the majority of free thinkers have approached your way of thinking. In fact, a large majority of us (myself included) were brought up from a Christian background, and so in some way we have the most open minds of all, rejected what was forced upon us as children (when we were most susceptible I might add) in order to follow a free thinking way of life. At the end of the day, from an open minded perspective, your beliefs are (to me) idiotic and irrational. There’s nothing I can do about it, but if you read my blog I’m sure you will understand why I think the way I do, and I hope one day you truly see the light and join us.

    

    Adrian Hayter

    29 Mar 08 at 1:12 am (GMT)
62. Actaully, Christianity does not condone attacking homosexuals. On the contrary, I love all homosexuals. But I do hate sin. Homosexuality is a sin.
    To be honest, I have had homosexual friends. If you read about Jesus, He was friends with all types of sinners. He had beef with the church people that you have beef with. He came to set the sinner free and the ones that thought they were righteous and didn’t want to help sinners, only reject them, He came against. I am in no way here to condemn sinners, I was one. I cannot judge. All I can do is share the good news that I have freely been given. I don’t believe that any sin is greater than the other, so my sin is just as bad as someone who lived the life of a serial killer. You will never hear me condemn a homosexual. The Scriptures you are referring to were written under the Law. As you probably know, Jesus came to set the Law straight because it had become a man made law that took precedence over God.
    There is also no scripture pertaining to attacks on abortion clinics. Any type of violence is wrong and, I agree with you, immoral. The Bible specifically says that we are not to wrestle (or fight) with flesh and blood. I do stand against abortion, but if I hurt someone, I would be going against what I am preaching myself. The doctors life that I am hurting is just as important as the childs life that is being taken.

    

    the_comedianman

    29 Mar 08 at 3:45 am (GMT)
63. You watch to much Law & Order. The people that you are referring to are called extremists. They exist in every religion. If it is not right to classify all muslims by the beliefs of few, then it is not right to do the same to Christianity.

    “My comment on Evolution I suspect you did not fully grasp.” No I don’t think that you fully grasped mine. I said,

    “So, how do you know? Are you listening to the “leading authorities”? Most of you believe that the media gives false propagnda to get you to believe what they want you to believe, but Evolution can’t fall into that category! For such a free thinker you sure are close minded.” Sure, you have had classes, read books and talked, but, unless you do it yourself, how do you know that they are not lying?

    “whereas if you don’t even belief it, how can you even try and discredit me???”
    You don’t believe in God, yet you’re trying to discredit me, aren’t you? That statement just didn’t make sense to me. Did you run out of things to intelligently argue?

    Also, it sounds like you have had a bad experience in your past with Christianity. Maybe your parents forced it or you were hurt by an extremist or you ran into a hypocrite. I am sorry. Not all of us are the way they were in your past. Some of us are good people. “I hope one day you truly see the light and join us.”

    All sarcasm aside, I am praying for you.

    And, I’m not an idiot.

    

    the_comedianman

    29 Mar 08 at 4:02 am (GMT)
64. Recently I walked through the park with my friend. When I mentioned Darwin he said - “Don’t you know, Darwin was wrong.”. Why, I said. “They all say so” was the answer. Who the fuck are “they”? I live in a ex-communist country (Bulgaria). Communists (A religion too) said “There is no god and Darwin is right” When communism failed then priests said - “Communism failed ergo Darwin is wrong.
    Every atheist is well educated person. Every believer is a warrior. By all cost. But every priest is a merchant. And the goods are we.
    P.S. Sorry for my English

    

    zazzy

    29 Mar 08 at 4:54 am (GMT)
65. Oh, and I didn’t say that if I was an athiest, I would lose everything. I said that If I was an atheist and Christianity WAS right, I would lose everything. But, If I’m a Christian and You ARE right, then it doesn’t really hurt anything. I guess if another religion turned out to be right, I’d be in trouble. But since this isn’t a muslim( or any other religion) page, I didn’t add them.

    “I urge you not to even consider using it again!” I don’t need your approval on what arguments I use or don’t use.

    

    the_comedianman

    29 Mar 08 at 5:07 am (GMT)
66. I have absolutely no idea what you mean, Zazzy, but rock on!

    

    the_comedianman

    29 Mar 08 at 5:12 am (GMT)
67. Halleluiah brothers and sisters.
    I came to say to every atheist that he’ll burn in hell (about 10 kilometers beneath). All of the believers will live in heaven (Between Mars and Jupiter). Because the Earth is flat. And if there is somebody controversial he will burn in flames in the same hell I’ve already mentioned. So, close this sinners blog. Don’t make the almighty GOD angry, or he (she, it ?) will crash the servers you are hosting at and your computers will be damned. Click here to purchase the only “Anti Damnation device just for $9.95.
    There is way out. Start to believe. And give donations to church as much as possible.
    GOD has everything except money and that’s because we are here.
    P.S.
    I’ve already been told that the atheist servers, sites, and forums have been crashed in almost 432 countries. But almighty GOD spared this one for me.
    P.P.S
    I’m sorry - 433 countries

    

    zazzy

    29 Mar 08 at 5:32 am (GMT)
68. Aristotle
    Albert Einstein
    George Washington
    Plato
    Leonardo Di Vinci
    CS Lewis
    Benjamin Franklin
    Isaac Newton
    I copied this list from an earlier post.
    They were all theists. So, if such great people believed in god that proofs its existence.
    Of course I can deliver(and I will) a list of such great people that don’t believe in god. And shall be I right to say - look these great people - they don’t believe in god therefore there is no god.
    Everybody has and must has his rights. To believe or not. But the major difference between me and the church is that the church is ready to kill me if I don’t believe. And don’t say to me that it is not the truth. We all know how many people have died, die and shall die in the name of god. (In the name of being a slave, work for the master, never complain and never commit suicide (who will work?)).
    I don’t know how many people had been died in the name of god.

    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca

    When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - This is for catholics

    The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one G. B. Shaw

    Is Jesus willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet - Napoleon

    When a person speaks to god it’s a prayer, when god speaks to a person it’s a schizophrenia.

    The last thing that I want to say is that I am afraid of any religious person. He is ready to kill me.

    

    zazzy

    29 Mar 08 at 6:44 am (GMT)
69. I take back what I said, zazzle, don’t rock on…

    I couldn’t tell what you were trying to say, but it is clear now. Have you READ any of my posts?

    You’re arguments aren’t even intelligent. At least Adrian Hayter could give me that much courtesy. You just degrade and bash. People like you are the reason that people are hated on both sides.

    If you would let the “big boys” talk, it wouldn’t come down to a mindless argument based on jokes and quips and trying to make each other mad.

    “We all know how many people have died, die and shall die in the name of god.”
    You know how many people have died in the name of everything else? It’s what you do for something you believe in.

    “Is Jesus willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
    That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard! The very thought of Him doing these what this quote says makes you cringe. He would be infringing on your “unalienable rights”! Either way we go, I lose.

    One more question, What did you prove? (Other than youare incapable of an intellectual, adult conversation/debate.)

    

    the_comedianman

    29 Mar 08 at 2:44 pm (GMT)
70. the_comedianman,

    “So, how do you know? Are you listening to the “leading authorities”? Most of you believe that the media gives false propagnda to get you to believe what they want you to believe, but Evolution can’t fall into that category! For such a free thinker you sure are close minded.” Sure, you have had classes, read books and talked, but, unless you do it yourself, how do you know that they are not lying?

    - Well, firstly if they were lying then at some point Evolution wouldn’t make any sense, and the evidence wouldn’t be in support of it. This case simply isn’t true, as we can see all the evidence and make our own conclusions. So unless you are proposing that all the evidence (collected over hundreds of years) is all faked, then I really don’t see your point. An Intelligent Design speaker once told me that we should “follow the evidence wherever it leads us, even if we don’t like the outcomes”. I couldn’t agree more, and in this case, Evolution is the outcome of following the evidence, not God.

    Before I continue, I am well aware that Evolution isn’t the end of God, and there is no reason (if such a God existed) that Evolution isn’t his way of creating and generating life. As long as believers accept this as probably (and a number of them have), then I have nothing against them. It is the ignorant fools who ignore the evidence because *THEY* don’t like where it takes them (rather ironic really) that I have issues with.

    “whereas if you don’t even belief it, how can you even try and discredit me???”
    You don’t believe in God, yet you’re trying to discredit me, aren’t you? That statement just didn’t make sense to me. Did you run out of things to intelligently argue?

    - I’m sorry, but I don’t think anywhere in my response I tried to “deconvert” you from God. I may have argued for atheism, but I certainly didn’t argue against your religion, so I fail to see how I am trying to discredit you in that way.

    You however were trying to discredit my knowledge and understanding of Evolution, and how can one do that when they do not understand it themselves. It is my finding that every single person who stands against Evolution has not fully understood in the first place. They claim we came from monkeys, which is not true at all. We came from “ape-like creatures”, something completely different. Monkeys are not our ancestors, they are our genetic “brothers”, having evolved from much the same type of animal we did, just taking a different evolutionary path to us (keeping their fur, living in trees etc).

    People have gone so far as to say “If Evolution were true, wouldn’t we see animals that are half evolved from a dog into a pig?”. No we wouldn’t, and I agree, this part of evolution is quite hard to wrap your head around (it took me a while). I’ll try and simplify it. Every single creature today, if technically speaking “half evolved” in the context of the original quote. We are all evolving from some ancestor (in our case the Homo Erectus), into a descendant (let’s call them Homo Futurus for fun). When we eventually evolve into Homo Futurus, we will still be “half evolved” from Homo Sapiens to the next descendant…let’s call them “Homo Futurus 2″. The whole reason scientists don’t use the term “half evolved” is because it refers to everything, and so is obsolete.

    If you are interested in learning more about Evolution, I will ask one one of my friends (a scholar in Evolutionary Biology) to write a FAQ or something on it for the blog. Whichever your way of thinking, I’m sure it will be an interesting read.

    

    Adrian Hayter

    29 Mar 08 at 3:13 pm (GMT)
71. I like you, Adrian, I like you. I don’t know why, but I do.

    I would like to know your response to the rest of what I have said. There are like 3 posts. And about the whole discrediting thing, I think that you sai