What made you deconvert?
Whether you like the term “deconvert” or prefer “conversion to atheism”, a recent investigative essay by Kieran Bennett has had quite a varied response. In light of this, I thought it might be interesting to run a poll to see how many people attribute their “deconversion” to Kieran’s conclusive factors.
Unlike previous polls, you can select multiple answers since there are probably multiple reasons. I’ve tried to reword a few factors so that ex-Muslims, Jews etc can also answer.
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I didn’t deconvert from Christianity, but Paganism, however most of the same answers apply. It didn’t cohere to science and reality, it was illogical, the ‘magic/k’ was inherently false and I started reading up on atheism.
Paganism has a less structured organisation, and fewer equivalents of ‘priests/priestesses’ and so on - but the disfunctionality of what there is I suppose was also a contributing factor, though only a small one.
Hannah L King
12 May 08 at 9:29 pm (GMT)
one of the reasons i deconverted was the obsession with the afterlife - as far as we can tell, this is the only life we get, so don’t blow it by focusing your “next” life. some one said it much more beautifully than i have here in the post with all the quotes.
sassy fontaine
12 May 08 at 9:39 pm (GMT)
sassy,
Was it Dawkins?
“Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one.”
Adrian Hayter
12 May 08 at 9:41 pm (GMT)
GREAT Dawkins quote!
Daniel Holter
12 May 08 at 9:45 pm (GMT)
One of the best!
Adrian Hayter
12 May 08 at 9:48 pm (GMT)
I was sixteen, so naturally I knew everything.
(loses poker face)
Okay, I didn’t know everything. But I was sixteen and there weren’t enough waking hours to read all the history and poetry and literature that I craved. At some point, even a naive teenager notices, “what, ANOTHER girl-knocked-up-by-deity story? - how many is that altogether,” and from there it’s but a short step to figuring out that much of what we call culture springs from our habit of telling stories to each other and ourselves.
Stories are as necessary, IMHO, as food and drink. In our Irish Catholic rural community, many sins might be forgiven if you could tell a good yarn and amuse the neighbours. Apply some Lit Appreciation 101 to the bible and suddenly it’s no longer so formidable an object, just another collection of stories, valuable as stories but nothing more.
weemaryanne
12 May 08 at 11:52 pm (GMT)
I was surprised at how common this particular realisation was.
I recently purchased a bible, and not for the usual atheist reason for seeking things to poke fun at. You’re right when you say that this literature is valuable, I’ve actually decided that I want to gain a greater appreciation of the stories themselves.
Thanks to Adrian for posting the poll, once again the results are very interesting.
Kieran
13 May 08 at 1:50 am (GMT)
One thing that always creeped me up in christianity is its sheer proselytism. It feels like they’re always trying to sell you a TV or a microwave. But instead, it’s the religion. You feel it in their hard kept smug smiles, saying “isn’t it beautiful to be on this side of belief?” It feels similar to “Invasion” from Stephen King, where infected people with an alien virus kept a queer fake smile at you, while an internal virus were turning them torn upside down.
And you feel it. And then you get afraid that they understand that you do understand and somehow get to lock you down in a dark green basement forever. Well, okay, that’s a little over the top ;), but that queer smile did get me out of it.
Luis Dias
13 May 08 at 1:55 pm (GMT)
Other - lack of validity to old documents written by people who clearly had an agenda and filtered through the years by people who also had an agenda.
Ben
13 May 08 at 5:32 pm (GMT)
I was raised by an atheist father and a mother whose Catholicism beat the Pope’s. I found myself, so to speak, when I was about twelve, by accident. As I lay in bed contemplating this, it occurred to me that it was the unforgivable mortal sin the nuns yammered about, and that if ever I did it again, on purpose, I would burn in the everlasting torments of Hell for all eternity. On the other hand, it was kind of nice.
My life of Communion, Confession, and Church never gave me much call to ask, but I knew my dad thought it was all hooey, and I faced a monumental decision that would affect my entire future even beyond the grave. If mom was right, I needed to get myself to the confessional, fess up to what I had done, beg forgiveness and somehow inoculate myself against ever repeating that foul and loathsome act. But then, it wasn’t all that loathsome, and if dad were to be believed, it didn’t matter. So I had to ask myself, Do You Really Believe This Stuff?
I thought back over my years of Nun Immersion, of saints prayin’ and martyrs dyin’, of blood and wine and crucifyin’, and I thought, No. This is just silly.
watercat
14 May 08 at 4:06 am (GMT)
[...] Atheist Blogger Adrian Hayter has a couple of posts on this essay. Related Posts:Assignment Update: Deconverting ChristiansThe Catholic Established [...]
Kieran Bennett » What works in deconverting Christians?
14 May 08 at 4:36 am (GMT)
never deconverted…never was converted…thank ‘god’ my mum was a infidel
Nathan
14 May 08 at 8:08 am (GMT)
For me, I was raised a Cradle Catholic, both parents super religious, taught Sunday school, went to daily Mass when possible, … the works. Starting around grade 10-11, I wouldn’t say my faith was particularly strong, but I still believed in it.
Basically, just this last year, I kinda got peer-pressured into doing a faith study with a Catholic Christian group on campus (I’m in 4th year CompSci now), and figured what the hell, I’ll make the best of this for the semester and try to deepen my understanding of my faith (since at this point I was already having doubts). However, coming back to all the topics we had covered in Sunday school growing up, and seeing them all laid out again as an adult now, I kinda went… “What the shit… they’re using circular logic and really faulty arguments to try and prove that this is true.” I kinda ended up becoming a bit of a devil’s advocate in that group, and, long story short, I don’t speak with them anymore, hehe, nor was I invited back for a 2nd study.
Also that semester, I took an Introduction to Religious Studies course as an elective, and realized basically how damn similar all the religions are. There are numerous ways you can compare Christ to Buddha, for example, (the manner of their conceptions/births, their early years, dying in self sacrifice, etc.) and like the poll said, I basically started to realize all the religions are kinda loosely similar, which in turn made me question why the religion I’m adhering too, which suddenly came into being 2000 years ago, is the Right Religion, when we as humanity had been worshiping other gods for millenia before that.
Also, I watched Zeitgeist recently (I know there are conflicting opinions about this movie), but the section on Christ really blew my mind. If you haven’t seen this yet, hit up http://www.zeitgeist.com and enjoy the first 40 minutes of the movie. They basically postulate that Christ was a mythical figure, the sum of all the previous gods and religions before him (Egyptian, Greek, Arabian-pagan, and others), and that Christianity is an out of control tool for political control of the Roman Empire. I know _that_ part is kinda far-fetched, but conspiracy theory aside, it was really interesting to hear the significant dates, numbers, symbolisms, and other references in the bible explained in context from the time they were written. (Such as why Jesus was dead for three days, why he was born on the particular day, why he came to earth when he did, etc. etc.) Theres too much to comment on here, watch the movie for yourselves and get what you can from it.
Lastly, I really started to question why we go to church. In my case? It’s a completely learned habit from my parents. I look around in church on Sunday and see people bored, playing with their siblings, gossiping, and generally not spending a lot of time in quiet, focused prayer, (I get a good view of all this, I play piano in our church’s choir… haha)… I see families who won’t talk to each other for years because of some trivial thing… I see people too focused on material aspects, or on what flowers to decorate the altar with, or on what song to sing when… I see that all and wonder, how many people actually believe what we’re taught here? How many people just come here because of social obligation, or out of habit, or because their parents want them to, or because . Basically I started to realize that we’re mostly all just hypocrite Christians (or hypochristians if you will, I heard that term in Weeds for the first time recently), excluding some of the older people at our church, for whom I still have a lot of respect. We come to church on Sunday, don’t really focus, don’t really care, and return to our ’sinful’ ways all during the week.
Anyways, WOW, I’m really sorry!! I did not mean for this to be so long, this was gonna be a quick comment and it kinda turned into an essay on me. I’m still one of those socially-obligated people, since I still live at home and enjoy free room and board and such while I take classes at University, I don’t feel now is an appropriate time to quit church, hehe, so it felt good to get this out.
Garrett
15 May 08 at 5:59 am (GMT)
What caused me to lose my faith was the plausibility that it was created by our own minds. I’ve always been interested in psychology and took a few classes on the subject in college. I just realized how many psychological needs that religion fulfills, and how much more likely it was that it was our own invention.
I suppose that also goes along with the other religions thing - because of course my discussions in classes involving psychological needs of religions always involved ancient religions and not christianity. Of course It wasnt difficult to make the connection :)
Thankfully I was told, by members of my church at the time, that it was healthy to question my faith. Although I doubt they realized that my questioning it would lead to me leaving it behind.
Chris
15 May 08 at 3:56 pm (GMT)
My dad’s a semi-atheist, my mom’s Catholic.
My dad, I think, is one of those near-genius everyday guys. The Average Joe you see walking around that really has a mind that’s waaaaay past most others’ way of thinking.
I guess I was having doubts in grade 7, so I talked to my dad to hear his arguments. My mind was open, then, so I didn’t automatically rebuke his claims as most Christians do. And you know what? It made sense. A helluva lot of sense. Moreso than the Church ever made for me.
So, now my mom’s worried that I’m a ’sheep’ that’ll convert to anything that sounds nice, but I don’t think so. I think that my belief that we have only one precious life to live will stay strong forever.
So, now Toronto has at least one enlightened 14-year old kid walking it streets, I guess. :P I may be young, but I’m no idiot.
KitKatBarStory
16 May 08 at 10:28 pm (GMT)
I checked Corruption because it was close enough.
There was no ‘defining moment’ it was a process, but one of the tipping points was… The church folks were JERKS! Was still in highschool and the churchmembers acted just like the fake plastic rich better-than-you cheerleader clique. And it was very ‘You people are sinners, pharisees, and blasphemers in the worst way by your own definition! And you still claim to be better than everyone else!’. And I didn’t think of this in a holier-than-thou way. It was more angry and disgusted. At least I admitted my flaws. It was all so petty. My morality has evolved, as I imagine it has with many of yall, but even then as a Christian child I could see..they are not living up to their own moral code, and refused to admit it, and even as a dumb teen I could see some of the ‘morals’ they were preaching were just WRONG.
As I said, it was petty. No child-rape or embezzling or juicy stuff like that. It was the petty meanness. You’re supposed to love your neighbor…but none of them did. They tell me ‘Judge Not…’…yet they judge and condemn all the time.They say the words, but they obviously don’t mean anything.
Their defining characteristic was ‘Accepting Jesus and listening to these Sermons helps you to be a good person’…but..it didn’t.
I no longer saw the point, thus I began my journey. And lo and behold! I don’t need Jesus to be a good person. I just work it out like everyone else and make an effort to not be a jerk. Don’t need a Sky Daddy for that.
I know it’s probably a subset of the Corruption/Scandal or Inconsistencies bit. But you may want to add Blatant Hypocrisy to the list.
So thas how it started. I know drug dealers and gang members that are more honest than members of my former church. But I’m no longer angry. I love my mailman, devout Christian, all around good guy. He even stopped trying to re-convert me ;)
PS: He wasn’t that insistent about it to begin with..so he wasn’t even a jerk on that part. I have met/do know Christians who are genuinely good people and don’t wish to give the impression that I think they are inherently evil.
KeaponLaffin
19 May 08 at 3:31 pm (GMT)
Unfortunately this poll only covers people who were once religious and then got over it. It leaves no room for people who were never indoctrinated or were raised in a secular setting.
I didn’t get God fed to me with my strained peas so I never had to unlearn anything. For me, religion has always been one of those kooky things some other people believe in like astrology, Bigfoot, and alien abductions.
I think some people are atheists because they weren’t exposed to religious indoctrination during their early childhood. I don’t think many people are even able to trick themselves into thinking God is real if the concept hasn’t been drilled into them through total immersion from infancy.
Kylyssa
21 May 08 at 3:17 am (GMT)
“Unfortunately this poll only covers people who were once religious and then got over it. It leaves no room for people who were never indoctrinated or were raised in a secular setting.”
Isn’t that the meaning of the word “deconversion” :P. I understand your point though, and thanks for contributing your reasons for not converting, not all of us are as fortunate as you to have a completely free mind!
Adrian Hayter
21 May 08 at 9:29 am (GMT)
I felt it needed to be mentioned because there is an assumption in the religious world that all people are born believing in god and that all people who are atheists “became” atheists. Some numbers on how many atheists are just people in the natural state might help both to dispel that misconception and to find out where the increase in atheists in America is actually coming from.
It may be that more people are unafraid to raise their children without indoctrination rather than that more people are “deconverting” but without the information it’s impossible to even guess. If more atheists are being raised than “deconverted” it might change the most logical approach to freeing more minds to one of support of freethinking parents and a focus on making the school systems religion-free zones. Conversely, if more Americans are “deconverting” the focus would be more logically placed upon exposure to positive secularism for teens and adults. Certainly, all venues should be explored.
I assume most American atheists “became” atheists but atheists from other areas of the world might mostly be people allowed to grow up without religious indoctrination.
I am very fortunate to have had the parents I had. There was a price to pay for having openly atheist parents, though. I suffered a savage beating by older students when I was “outed” in fourth grade and continued to receive lesser assaults and emotional abuse from both students and staff in the public school system. I suppose I should be thankful to them, too. They made sure religion had no allure and impressed upon my young mind that religion can make vicious beasts of otherwise civilized humans.
I hold deep respect for those who have been able to throw off their childhood indoctrinations.
Kylyssa
21 May 08 at 2:50 pm (GMT)
For me the kicker was, in addition to realizing that it just didn’t gel with reality, the sheer silliness of it all. I was just wasting time on the internet when I found a “Flat Earth” website that was either started as a parody and attracted some True Believers, or started in all seriousness but got out of hand. Anyway, I stumbled on a forum discussion that pointed out that I had absolutely no reason to believe, and plenty of reason not to. Within five minutes, the high school junior who worked in the dishroom of a Christian summer camp for free had left the flock. It was that simple. In retrospect, I think what did it was a variant of Hume’s argument against miracles (Since miracles are by definition contrary to our understanding of reality, it is more likely that we are misinformed, or being lied to, than that a miracle occurred.), though I didn’t hear of Hume for quite some time afterward.
Ziggy
26 May 08 at 10:04 pm (GMT)