Conversations With The Deluded

Firstly, let me apologize for yet another absence on the blog. I’ve only just worked out how to post-date articles so it shouldn’t happen again in the future. During the past 2 weeks I’ve finished university (first year anyway), passed all my exams (yay!), gone on holiday, got badly sunburnt, and then had to pack my entire room into a transit van and move back home.

Onto the topic of this article. I was contacted a week ago by a muslim named “Abu” who opened his email like so:

right in this moment in time I’d love to lose my rag bang the computer and
scream infernally! But I’d like to alter your skewed views on life and the
pointless, deity-less movement that is atheism. Why verily only the arrogant,
proud, the incessently stupid believe in atheism…

He outlined what he thought were good arguments against atheism, including the “There are no atheists in foxholes” argument and Pascal’s wager (both easily refutable). The ongoing discussion has covered about 6 emails now and they are a pain to read all at once, so I’ve chosen the best bits for you:

Islam is all the religions in one. We believe in Jesus, Moses and all he bibles and scriptures given to them bible, torah etc.

There is no exclusitivity in Islam. Islam encompasses all religionns.

Of course religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikhism, Pastafarianism don’t count…

Scientifically you will find the water of both oceans (atlantic and pacific) can not overlap due to the difference in water types and the fact that crusts and plates ensures this.

Yup, apparently there is some kind of magical barrier that separates the waters of every ocean. Forget that the Earth really only has one ocean and the others are all man-designated areas based mainly on the continents they surround. Forget that the Pacific plate is actually smaller than the Pacific Ocean, and the Pacific Ocean actually rests on about 4 plates (Pacific, Nazca, Australian, North American).

Now il move onto one of the fundamental lie if your belief – darwins theory of evolution. Let me ask you this – if monkeys are continually evolving into humans over a long period of time (thousand,millions of years) then why aren’t their currnyly any monkeys which are 50% evolved quarter involved? There is a distict difference between monkeys and humans!

I don’t know how many times I’ll have to shout “No evolutionist has ever said we evolved from monkeys!” at creationists before they actually listen to me. After I gave a detailed explanation of our Evolution to him he responded with:

you spoke absolute nonsense and plain bullshit about this so wel move on because your argument doesn’t deserve justification.

I can just see the thought process in his brain: too..much….information….must…resort to…insults and…lousy…excuses…

Some have mentioned the invention of the ‘hydrogen’ car this would be incompatible you use in the earth for a long period if time because hydrogen based chemicals released into the atmosphere would diffuse and affect the pollution levels ti such an extent to which the earth would be unbreathable.

Hydrogen + Oxygen + HEAT => DEATH + POLLUTION apparently. I always knew those lab experiments I did when I was 12 were dangerous…damn you school! Of course those of you who actually know how Hydrogen cars work will understand that the products of the above reaction are HEAT (which is converted into Electricity) and WATER.

Cars running on crude oil are naturally compatible with The atmosphere. Cars with oil generate the release of nitrogen which has no major impact on the earth as earth atmosphere equivalates nitrogen
to be 76%. I don’t know the exact percentage.

The only bit of science he got spot on. Unfortunately this only works with perfect combustion of petrol, and so far we haven’t got an engine that does it perfectly, hence all the carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and hydrocarbons which ARE dangerous to the atmosphere…

Scientists and consensus agrees on the existence of the soul. What determines death? You say the heart stops, brain switches off WRONG. What determines death is the soul departing.

Islamic scientists might say the soul exists, but when I asked him for a peer-reviewed document that came to this conclusion it took him 3 emails ignoring my request and then finally a “do a google search” response which he promised would return a load of accounts from people with PhD’s. Of course I know that a PhD means absolutely nothing in the scientific world unless you have a peer-reviewed article to go with it (just look at Kent Hovind).

Here is a fantastic quote though:

Have you ever been to anyones deathbed? Just when death is imminent. You can determine the soul has left the body as the human body has one last minor struggle before the soul leaves the nose causing the nose to bend and become crooked. It is clearly visible and thus the soul
departs.

Sadly I was at my grandmothers side when she died 3 years ago, and I saw no such bending of the nose. Her last breath was pretty much a normal sigh, but then she did have breathing tubes going into her nose, so perhaps the soul went through one of them? When I told him I had never heard of such an incident being reported he assured me that if the mouth is open the soul exits through that. I reckon I’ll perform a test when I’m on my deathbed: Tape up my mouth, nostrils, ears maybe, and see how my “soul” likes that. Heck, if death only occurs when the soul leaves the body like he claims, I might be able to live forever! (albeit uncomfortably)

For the finale, one last attack of Evolution:

Darwin used his pathetic theory to exploit the anti church trend the country was falling into. Due to fresh controversies about the bible many people were adipting the stance of renegade against popular beliefs. Darwin merely instigated the bandwagon as it were. Look let’s please drop this Darwin debarcle. You gave a drab argument about orangatans. The simple fact is is that this specie or any other specie is not any closer to taking the final form of a human.

I’m sure he spent 5 years on a boat so he could have an alibi when he was plotting to take down religion. It’s all a conspiracy I tell you! The finches were in on it as well!

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  1. June 15th, 2008 at 20:31 | #1

    There are some fundamentalist that you can’t reasoning with. You just have to toy with their reasoning until they realize the absurdity for themselves. Education doesn’t work on everyone.

  2. Im-postle-able
    June 16th, 2008 at 03:48 | #2

    Wow.. just wow…

    What will it take to show the fanatical religeious the gaping holes in thier logic (the thing about the atlantic & the pacific made me laugh, you wonder how ignorant someone has to be to have never seen a map of the world)

    I think we need power point presentations with visible demonstrations of circular argments and flawed logic *sigh*

    Keep up the good work! Your blog is always a good read :-)

  3. Chris
    June 16th, 2008 at 13:41 | #3

    Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example… sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we’d all dissolve! So much for the Theory of Evolution, Check MATE!

  4. Chris
    June 16th, 2008 at 13:43 | #4

    The above was a quote from christianforums.com

    It’s hard to bridge a divide like this when one side is completely nuts.

  5. June 17th, 2008 at 12:48 | #5

    It’s next to impossible to break through that nonsense, so one on one conversations like that I never get involved in. In some sort of public forum I will, because the people that can be reached are the lurkers, and they may not be as far gone.

    It’s amazing how someone would think that after calling your argument and it’s justifications “nonsense”, “bullshit”, and not worth addressing that he could just move on cheerily and you’d also happily continue chatting. Wow.

    I don’t know a great deal about islam but it sounds like they’re even further gone than christians. Christians have that perversion of the Golden Rule, do onto others what you would want done to you. It’s a perversion because it dismisses empathy since you’re not taking into account what others would want done to them, but arrogantly assuming what you want is what they want. Now even with this flawed version, they would have to see calling your views “bullshit” would be wrong since they wouldn’t want someone saying that to them. One can only imagine what the islamic variant must be.

  6. June 17th, 2008 at 13:15 | #6

    PhillyChief,

    Admittedly I kinda figured from the beginning that I wasn’t going to convince him otherwise. His first arguments were so appallingly circular / illogical that I expected the abuse and general attitude he continued with. However, I suspected I could get some nice quotes out of him to use in an article, so I continued.

    I am still having the conversation with him, so there might be a follow-up article containing more of his delusions. So far he keeps complaining that everything I say is only “theory” and therefore isn’t science. Of course when I explain the difference between scientific theory and scientific fact he just resorts to abuse again.

    I would discontinue the conversation but honestly I find the entire thing quite amusing. I’ve just ended university for the summer and these emails provide me with something to do :P

  7. June 17th, 2008 at 13:33 | #7

    Well there’s always the entertainment factor. :)

  8. June 18th, 2008 at 02:06 | #8

    Too bad he didn’t bring up the Mecca is the center of the Earth nonsense. The Earth’s core is the center of the Earth!

  9. hoosgownurse
    June 19th, 2008 at 03:37 | #9

    well, he follows a religion founded by a man who married a 6 year old girl and waited 3 years to have sex with her. how good of him to wait so long. don’t forget mohammed also ascended to heaven on a pegusus. in all honesty, there is no reasoning with a person who believes this bullshit. it’s pure entertainment, at least until he straps bombs to his body and blows up a pizza parlour. so please, proceed with caution in your conversations with the deluded man.

  10. October 23rd, 2008 at 05:00 | #10

    Wow, you must be a saint. *snicker, snicker* You have incredible patience. Good job. I get so frustrated with religious extremists I have to stay away from them otherwise I may want to “smack them upside the head”. Not that I would, but it does cross my mind from time to time.

  11. Layne B
    July 11th, 2009 at 04:18 | #11

    You misspelled (to my American sense of spelling) "absence," and also Hydrogen + Oxygen + Heat produces water and heat, not water and electricity. The expansion of air caused by the heat can be harnessed to produce electricity, obviously. Just a few things I need to be anal about.

    Other than that, great article! I'm always amazed by the ignorance and borderline mental retardation of many religious people. Of course, when over 60% of the world believe in one or more gods or deities, then statistically those groups have to contain more stupid people. I've seen some amazing ignorance and stupidity within the atheist community too, though.

  12. James Smith
    January 19th, 2010 at 11:20 | #12

    As Albert Einstein ( famous atheist among other things) said, "The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and human stupidity." I think the exchange you quoted has again shown that old Al was right.

    One thing that leaps out at me in this is hat, he wanted to abandon any point where he knew he had no rational response. This is so common among theists and anyone else debating from a hopeless position. "Let's just pretend this never was asked or even mentioned."

  13. February 25th, 2010 at 04:38 | #13

    I created an Atheist / rational thinker store, mostly out of anger and frustration at the general public's stupidity and/or apathy about just these kinds of things. Check it out if you like… I keep all of the prices as low as is possible through zazzle in order to get as much out there as I can and help spread the word that we’re not going to take this shit anymore. :-)
    http://www.zazzle.com/briman232*

  1. June 17th, 2008 at 21:05 | #1
  2. June 18th, 2008 at 16:26 | #2

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