Comments on: Taking The Church Hostage

By: I kidnapped Jesus - The Atheist Blogger

I kidnapped Jesus - The Atheist Blogger — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:23:05 +0000

[...] I commented on a news story about a student in America who took a wafer from a Catholic Mass, incurring the wrath of quite a number of Catholic organizations in the process. The [...]

By: Nathaniel

Nathaniel — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:58:06 +0000

Personally, I’d reccomend you go all-out in your blatent mockery and protestism.

Build a little cracker/wafer/biscuit/cookie internment camp. Have the communion wafer Cheeze-Whiz-Boarded. (Cheeze-Whiz: The kind of cheeze that can be dispensed from a pressurized can’s nozzle.)

Claim that you’re doing it in the interests of national security.

By: Somnambulator

Somnambulator — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:29:23 +0000

I think it bring this archaic ritual into focus in the puplic eye and begs people to ask “why do we do that again?
People have been doing it for a long time without question (or, even worse, are scared to openly question the ritual.)
Making light of a deeply pious ritual forces people to question, albeit uncomfortably, the origins and the modern appropriateness of said ritual.
Going by the comments here it seems to be working.
Many archaic rituals have been abandoned throughout history, maybe this ones time has come.

Pull back the curtain and see the little man pulling the strings. That is enlightenment.

By: Adrian Hayter

Adrian Hayter — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 02:54:03 +0000

Chris,

It’s for laughs and to mainly illustrate the point that the church reaction was completely over the top. In fact, their reaction was so overwhelmingly funny that instead of making people respect their faith, it made people laugh at it and has encouraged this sort of response. I’ve had a few emails from people who are doing the same thing (stealing wafers) because the standard response of this community is to mock at every possible moment.

Without the church’s stupid reaction to Evolution and it’s adamant support of I.D, the Flying Spaghetti Monster wouldn’t have been born. It was a small idea that carried an important message: “If I.D is true, you can’t exclude other doctrines”.

Likewise, this act carries a message: “We don’t care what you think; in our eyes it’s only a wafer”. Ordinarily someone doing this wouldn’t have caused so much attention, but because the church got so cross about it we want to show them idiotic they look.

It also points out the hypocritical nature of their claims. Look at it this way. If they are correct, then we are simply kidnapping part of Jesus, but THEY are eating him! Which would you prefer, a kidnapping or cannibalism?

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 02:21:01 +0000

OK, even if you aren’t going to be infringing on their rights to perform their ceremony - i’m still confused, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with all this? Just doing it for laughs?

I’m so tempted to go along with this and laugh about it with my normal disrespect toward anything religious but I just see this as counterproductive to anything good. It basically says to religious people that we lack respect for them entirely and will go really out of our way to commit sacrilege against their religion because it’s funny to us. You aren’t exposing some big conspiracy or lie or anything or arguing a point with science, logic or reason - you’re just saying “haha, you’re stupid, it’s just a cracker!”.

It’s ignoring the real problem we could be fighting - the amount of influence this institution has on the state. I was raised Catholic and have as much going against the church as anyone else who was raised with the guilt and ceremonial bullshit, but this is pointless.

By: Adrian Hayter

Adrian Hayter — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:59:34 +0000

Well I’ve done a bit of research, and it turns out Salisbury Cathedral isn’t CofE but is classed only as an Anglican Church, and as such they adhere to the beliefs of transubstantiation.

To put simply, in 8 hours time, I will be receiving the body and blood of Christ, as literal body and blood. I’ll still go to the Catholic church I’ve picked out and see when their mass is, merely for the self interest value (I’ve never attended mass before).

By: Somnambulator

Somnambulator — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:30:29 +0000

I was brought up C of E, and taught that communion was ’special’ and I couldn’t do it until I was confirmed. I was fed this in some attempt to put me in awe of it. That failed dismally. I must admit I found the “blood of christ’ and the ‘body of christ’ quite ludicrous from the age of about 11-12. I argued constantly with sunday school teachers and church leaders that it was rice paper and wine, and their ideas had more in common with the Emperors New Clothes than scripture. As far as I was concerned they were kidding themselves. I was reprimanded and punished for my insolence and spent years believing I must be thick because I didn’t get it.
It took a long time for me to realise that I was right and the whole thing is based on the Emperors New Clothes.
I do get it, it is a lie to make people ‘belong’ and fear community rejection.
Ceremony should have appropriate meaning, like marriage - a joining commitment,
coronation - recognising a new head of state,
shaking hands - friendship, showing no weapons in the outstretched hand.
All of these and more have appropriate meaning.
Eating the body and drinking the blood of another human even if symbolic is just plain stupid.
It is just a cracker, nothing more nothing less.
No amount of mumbo jumbo changes that fact.

Showing people what is behind the curtain is never wrong.
Go for it Adrian.

By: Matt G.

Matt G. — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:12:04 +0000

DaveS,

He is FULLY within his rights to enter the church, stay for service, and pocket the wafer.

He interferes with nothing. He interrupts no part of the service. He causes no disturbance of the peace. In fact, any other person would just see him as any other regular church-goer.

Every analogy you’ve tried to give is terribly flawed.

Infact, your whole argument pertaining to other persons’ rights to conduct their services to their choosing… his presence would not impose upon their rights. They will perform the service, they will perform it to their choosing, and they won’t even know that a wafer will be taken.

So, really, I don’t see your problem.

You know what? In fact, your argument sounds like you value the church-goer’s freedoms over Adrian’s. By imposing their freedoms so much, you’re essentially stripping away Adrian’s.

But what do I know? I’m just an American teenager..

By: DaveS

DaveS — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:26:48 +0000

It’s not “English” law and what I referred to was updated and published less than 10 yrs ago, not 400.

I do have a question though, should someone who “believes” be offended by “just a cracker” or as you put it, “free bread” because that’s what you believe?

By: Adrian Hayter

Adrian Hayter — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:08:30 +0000

“How stricly they are enforced is one thing, whether or not they exist is another.”

This kind of law logic doesn’t work. Did you know that on Sunday afternoons if I see a Welshman it is my patriotic duty to shoot them in the back with a crossbow? Oh, and forget about eating Christmas Puddings…they were banned over 400 years ago.

The English law is filled with useless and impractical laws that nobody uses anymore. The church is the same. I care less for church laws than I do for regular laws anyway.