Eucharist Miracles Explained
Looking over my stats, I found a few visitors coming in from a HaloScan comments page. Incidently, does anyone know how to find the original blog from this comments page? Judging by the comments it’s probably some deeply ignorant Christian blog. Anyway, I’d got some hits off that for my copy-cat wafer stealing event.
Reading through the comments, it turns into a discussion/argument about Eucharist between Catholics and (I assume) either atheists or semi-religious Christians. One Catholic named
Two miracles take place at the consecration. The first is that the substance of the bread and wine change into Jesus Christ. Not His dead Body and Blood but His risen and living Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity - His whole resurrected Self. The second miracle is that the qualities of bread and wine still remain as though no change has occurred. This is necessary so that the Eucharist can be in a foodlike form that we can easily consume.
Seriously? THAT is a miracle??? It’s always been my thinking that miracles were meant to be observable to be a sign of God’s power, as well as reward the believers (possibly converting some non-believers in the process). Now I know what miracles really are I should have been more open minded towards them. I apologise, and will now list various miracles I have encountered in the last hour.
- My laptop just started miraculously floating around the room, whilst at the same time (by the Grace of God) appearing to stay exactly where it always was. Truly divine!
- I just slipped on some wet grass and instead of my foot going into the water of the pond, it stopped on the surface and I was able to walk on water. To the casual observer though, God made my foot go through the surface of the pond and get wet.
- God inspired the gift of the Japanese language to my brain, and I talked for 30 minutes in a language I had not learned at any point in my life. At the same time, God inspired my native English to my brain, so the words that came out of my mouth can all be found in English dictionaries.
- …I think you get my point.
I know some people get a little annoyed when atheists constantly ask for proof, but in all honesty can you really blame us? If the above reasoning is required to be a believer then I’d prefer not to participate in this ritual sacrafice of common sense and rationality.
If anything, this just shows how dangerous these people are. This kind of thinking is what drives their irrational brains to kill abortion workers and put their babies in microwaves. It’s a damn good thing our legal systems rely on actual physical evidence. If that ever changes, the first thing I’ll do is to have all Catholics arrested for cannibalism.
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Strange…. a miracle and nothing at all look very much a like. How great is our God!
Oliver
12 Jul 08 at 5:59 pm (GMT)
When you titled the post Eucharistic Miracles Explained, I thought you were going to go more into reports of the host/wine turning into actual flesh/blood, or bleeding Hosts, etc, not just the Transubstantiation (the technical term for eucharist becoming christ’s body)
Garrett
13 Jul 08 at 4:16 am (GMT)
Garrett,
Well I would do that but I’ve never actually heard of it happening. If you find me an instance of it happening I’d gladly try and debunk it.
Adrian Hayter
13 Jul 08 at 10:26 am (GMT)
What a coincidence, I’m just about to start the MiraclePebble™ diet.
That’s the one where I find a pebble and, through blessing it, it becomes a three course roast dinner, BUT with MiraclePebble™ technology it still looks and tastes and hurts JUST LIKE A REAL PEBBLE.
The secret is that I KNOW it was really a three course roast dinner that I just swallowed.
I’m so excited about all the weight and brain cells I’m losing.
Somnambulator
14 Jul 08 at 1:15 am (GMT)
Here’s the Wikipedia page on eucharistic miracles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_miracle
The prominent one, the miracle of Lanciano, which occurred in 700 AD, still exists today and has been tested in the early 1970’s by two Italian scientists. Anyways…
Garrett
15 Jul 08 at 7:32 am (GMT)
I can tell you which blog the comments came from, because I was one of the atheist commentors.
That’s from St. Mark Shea’s blog, “Catholic and enjoying it!” But no. He’s not really a saint, though I’m going to call him that from now on since he acts like he gets infallible information from his divine pipelines, Jesus and the church.
You can find it pretty easily by typing “mark shea” into Google.
He banned me a couple days ago. After saying I had too much pride and should come back when I could stand having my arguments refuted.
I wonder If I’m the only one who feels like he didn’t really refute the arguments that well, rather than pontificate on the issues without proving anything?
Something I notice with him, and with many of the commentors, is that they make all these tangled logical webs to justify things. Bread looks like bread, but isn’t bread. Only, it differs from bread in a way invisible to our senses. Stuff like that. They even went so far as to say that it differs from bread for a fifteen minute period, during the Mass. That way, Jesus doesn’t regularly get digested and excreted. Since they do claim that the bread is *literally*, though also invisibly, the body and blood, soul and spirit, of the risen Jesus. I had commented before that if Jesus did remain present in the bread on it’s entire trip through the body, Catholics would be turning Jesus into shit every Sunday.
Kaltrosomos
25 Jul 08 at 6:13 am (GMT)
I think that we should be careful with the use of the word “miracle”. St.Augustine would say that the whole Universe is a miracle! Yes. But we are using the word in a specific way: the Eucharistic miracle shows us that really what we believe is true. The Risen Lord is present in the bread and wine. This is not cannibalism, because it is the glorified Lord present in the bread. How else could we believe that the same Jesus is present there? We do not need miracles, since we trust the Lord and his life-giving words.
Jesus performed miracles. The Gospels witness to them. The people never denied that Jesus cured instantaneously the lepers. They were eye-witnesses.
There are miracles even today. They are not feats of magic and power, but signs of faith. We believe in healings and miracles, but also in the redemptive value of suffering.
We believe in God and his power from the Christian Revelation. We respect the atheists, but they just believe that there is no God…
Dr.Ivo da C.Souza
Ivo da C.Souza
9 Aug 08 at 3:50 pm (GMT)
** hocus pocus — magical misery tour **
The stock magicians’ formula is an old parody of the Latin phrase “hoc est corpus” for ‘this is god’s body’ said at the elevation of a wafer (the host) at mass.
RCs by the millions still accept late hellenistic magical texts as sacred. And you thought theurgy — summoning a god’s presence and forcing “him” to act through incantations — had died out.
You simply cannot desecrate what is not sacred in the first place. Ods bodkins! But now, I’m begging the question whether “god’s little bodies” are just completely non-nutritious substitutes for the old agapé fest. It’ll take more than Aquinas’ gloss on The Philosopher’s dead metaphysics to make theurgy plausible.
If you can believe the dogma of transubstantiation; then you can believe anything the Magisterium demands. The RC’s dogmata on abortion and stem cell research are on a par with papal infallibility and the redemptive value of suffering. One authoritative irrationality is as sound as another.
Well, as ex-RC Luther said, “Reason is the devil’s whore.” And Paul of Tarsus, never one to be shy, puts xian revenge seeking high on his list of nihilistic values:
27-But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28-He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are . . . . 1Cor1:26-28 NIV
OK, so Paul was the laughingstock of Athens on the day he tried to convince the Epicureans and Stoics that they were sinners in the hands of angry god.
Old grudges against skepticism and science apparently still justify a holy xian fatwah. As the crusade against PZ Myers proves — he at least is on the correct side of the barricades.
bipolar2 ©2008
bipolar2
23 Aug 08 at 8:35 pm (GMT)
“Garrett,
Well I would do that but I’ve never actually heard of it happening. If you find me an instance of it happening I’d gladly try and debunk it.”
Im still waiting you to “debunk it” buddy.
Benjamin
24 Oct 08 at 1:32 pm (GMT)
@Benjamin
Anything I wrote would be a repeat of other debunkings of the “miracle”. Here are a few for your reading:
http://arumanchan.blogspot.com/2008/08/eucharist-miracles-miracle-of-lanciano.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080823075211AA7tIya (More discussion / raising questions than debunking)
http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-247579.html
Of course I’d be very willing to discuss any questions you have about this.
Adrian Hayter
24 Oct 08 at 6:57 pm (GMT)