Evolution Is Not A Fraud!
This is a general response to the “Debunking Atheists” blog post entitled “Evolution is a fraud!“. As with all posts made by Creationists, it contains a gross misunderstanding of basic Evolutionary theory, and whilst I’m no Evolutionary Biologist, I know the basics enough to correct Dan on it.
From the article:
1. It’s not science. You cannot observe, test and repeat the ever-changing ideas that are little more than wild speculation.
WRONG. It certainly is science, and it has been observed[1] and is being experimented on[2] as we speak. In fact, Richard Lenskis experiment[3] has frozen instances of E-coli every 500 generations, meaning he can replay the Evolution of past generations to see if the same things happen. If anything, the “ever-changing ideas” prove it is a science. since science is always updated with new evidence coming in. Evolutionary theory has changed much since the days of Darwin, but the core observation that species have evolved has remained and is unchallenged (successfully) to this day. If you really think ever-changing ideas cannot be science, then the theory of gravity is not a science, neither is our understanding of particle physics, or any chemistry subject. We can never really know everything about any subject since the infinite variations we could test under are just too many.
2. It devalues real science. Chemistry, physics and biology don’t have the same problems of legitimacy because they are real sciences, not philosophical wannabes trying to appear legit.
WRONG. Firstly it should be pointed out that Evolution is a part of biology, so you are contradicting yourself by saying that biology is a real science and Evolution is not. As I have explained in the previous paragraph, Evolution is a real science and if you actually looked for the evidence you would find it. There are no so-called “problems of legitimacy” in Evolution. Everything we can explain has been explained, and if something comes along that isn’t compatible with current Evolutionary theory, the reason will be found and the theory changed to fit the evidence. Likewise, if evidence is found that contradicts Evolution and can be proved, Evolution would be finished. Unfortunately, this would leave us stuck because we would have to explain all the evidence we currently have for Evolution and change / variation using another theory. No current alternatives have even come close.
3. Complex engineering. Do you ever drive past a skyscraper and think to yourself ‘Gee, I guess billions of years of random chance could have just as easily assembled all of that glass, steel and concrete as well as a team of engineers, architects, construction workers working from blueprints? Of course not! But that’s what evolutionists would have you believe in when it comes to living organisms.
WRONG. It would be criminal of me not to point out your obvious misconception of natural selection as “random chance”. It is nothing of the sort. As the name suggests, instead of some external influence choosing which way Evolution goes, it is nature “selecting” the path. Random chance only occurs when mutations appear “randomly” but this is only the primary phase of Evolution and has no relation to any of the other phases. Natural selection is the process of mutations being passed on through generations, forming the new variation of the species once it breeds across the entire population. Since you include a link to the bacterial flagellum, it seems only appropriate that I inform you that the Evolution of flagellum has been explained at EvolutionWiki[4] and even Wikipedia.[5]
4. Genetics. The programming code of life, according to evolutionists, is just a series of biochemical accidents and mutations. If you believe this, I have a bridge in New York that’s for sale. The infinitely complex engineering of this code means that it did not come about via ‘natural selection,’ aka random chance.
WRONG. DNA and Genetics is not “infinitely complex”. If it were then it wouldn’t exist because we live in a finitely sized universe (it is referred to as infinite due to its continual expansion and therefore failure to ever tell how large it is at any given point). Genetics is complex, but not infinitely complex. However, as previously stated complex states can evolve through natural selection, which isn’t random chance. Complexity evolves, it has been observed.
5. Mathematically Impossible. Basic probability tells you that the odds of a blob of primordial ooze morphing into a man, regardless of how much time has passed, are so remote that mathematicians regard it as impossible. Emile Borel and Fred Hoyle are just two mathematicians who reject evolution on statistical grounds.
WRONG. Yes, if it were purely up to random chance then the likelihood of things evolving into complex organisms would be incredibly small. However, as previously stated (and repeated) natural selection is not random chance. That said, you still make a vast misconception of Evolutionary theory by saying that “a blob of primordial ooze morphing into a man”. This never happened. The Evolution of humanity from “primordial ooze” happened over billions of years and through countless trillions of generations of bacteria so simple organisms, to more complex organisms. You mention Borel and Hoyle, but they had very distinct flaws in their arguments. Namely that they ignored natural selection, and that they tried to calculate the overall probability instead of focusing on the individual processes of Evolution. The probability of a new gene surfacing and being kept in the population, etc. Their arguments have been debunked many times.[6][7]
6. Evolution is a religion. Yes, evolution is the faith of atheism because it replaces God with man. When you’ve conned yourself into believing that some kind of ancient slime morphed into progressively complex and directional life forms, you are in the realm of faith, not science.
WRONG. Evolution is not a religion. A religion is defined as a set of beliefs about the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. Evolution is not an answer to any of these, although it is itself part of the “nature” of the universe. There are plenty of Christian evolutionists that see natural selection as God’s hand and the genesis accounts as a cute but illogical story of the origins of life.
7. Racism. This is the ugly secret that evolutionists don’t want to discuss; that Darwin, Huxley and many of the early advocates of evolution stated publicly that Asians, Africans, Australian Aborigines and other non-white, non-European groups were evolutionary throwbacks. Darwin’s cousin, Francis Galton, was a pioneer in the early field of eugenics which was the study of skills by ethnic groups. While Galton’s work was relatively harmless, Hitler’s work — to synthesize natural selection by exterminating a race of people — was not. (evofraud.com)
Also, Hitler even tried to breed apes and humans to make a superior race because of the belief of evolution. Please tell me honestly does evolution really sound logical to you personally? Really? Is this a great example of mass hysteria?
WRONG. Darwin was a racist. So what? At the time being racist was a normality in his society. Creationists at the time were likewise racist and sexist, but I don’t use that as an arguing point against Creationism because I understand the historical context. Yes, Darwinian Evolution was highly biased against people of different colours and they were thought to be an inferior race. This is why nobody follows Darwinian Evolution anymore. The theory has changed because we discovered this was wrong and all people are equal. Not to mention, the original human race is now thought to have evolved in Africa. [8]
Eugenics as you mention is not harmful. It goes by the premise that since Evolution relies on natural selection, certain beings with free will can override such selection and build a better species. In some ways, this already happens as we choose who we want to reproduce with based on various factors. Eugenics through genetic manipulation is a current thinking which has great potential. Instead of forbidding people with genetic abnormalities to reproduce, we use genetic engineering to remove the abnormalities in the unborn child.
As for Hitler trying to breed a superior race through mixing humans and apes, it shows an almost laughable understanding of Evolutionary theory. Such a race would take millenia to emerge, and why choose an ape? Why not breed a lion with a human, or a cheetah? Even if this kind of Evolution was possible (which it isn’t), the idea falls flat on its face. So yes, Hitlers flawed view of Evolution is indeed an example of hysteria, so thank goodness we don’t have the same problems today.
Conclusively, I should remark on how your view of Evolution is so corrupted by Creationist teachings. Your arguments go against even what most Christians believe. My advice would be to take an Evolution 101 course, ask questions, get answers. Don’t try to sit at home with an internet connection and attempt to ridicule something you know nothing about.
- http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html ↩
- https://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/ ↩
- https://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/overview.html ↩
- http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Evolution_of_flagella ↩
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_flagella ↩
- http://www.aetheling.com/essays/Borel.html ↩
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoyle%27s_Fallacy ↩
- http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2001/nov/ancestor.htm ↩
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Bravo.
Ignorance is not something to be ashamed of.
Pretending to now something is.
Philip
25 Jul 08 at 1:24 pm (GMT)
[...] you’re new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!Recent debunkings of Creationist flaws leads me to ponder how many people believe in Evolution and what relation these results have with [...]
Evolution Poll - The Atheist Blogger
25 Jul 08 at 1:45 pm (GMT)
I see you’re putting the footnotes to good use. You can makem links if you want, they do not have to be plain text.
Yes, that’s the only comment I have to make about this article. Refuting cretinists is like shooting fish in a barrel these days…
db0
25 Jul 08 at 6:53 pm (GMT)
I am not the only one that holds this viewpoint. Many highly accredited Scientists believe in a Creator instead of evolution. Here is a little handy list: Creationists holding DOCTORATES IN SCIENCE
I briefly skimmed this article called: Some Real Scientists Reject Evolution which has good referenced facts in it.
Thanks to that article (Some Real Scientists Reject Evolution) I found out about A book that was written and is available online to read if you choose. It’s called The Evolution Deceit
Dan
29 Jul 08 at 5:00 am (GMT)
Dan,
I’d hardly call that list “many”. The page is highly bias because it lists only 16 Evolutionists compared to 94 Creationists, as if to try and show that more scientists believe Creationism. The two categories are also unfairly labeled, the first being simply “Creationists holding doctorates in science” (not necessarily Biology I might add) compared to “Leading Evolutionists”. 95% of scientists believe in Evolution, so why can’t they be held in consideration?
It seems strange that you would reject Evolution, something with so much evidence, for Creationism, something with no evidence.If only you stopped reading Creationist propaganda and actually sat down and took a class on Evolutionary biology (would that really hurt so much?) you would learn more about the theory. You have been brainwashed by Creationists to think that the theory is dangerous, incomplete, and has no evidence, when the opposite is true.
I implore you to look at both sides as I have done on many occasions. I’ve read Behe’s work, read through creationist websites, and any questions I find I ask about on Evolution sites or get my biologist friends to explain for me. There has not been one valid question that has been unanswered for me.
Adrian Hayter
29 Jul 08 at 11:10 am (GMT)
Oh gawds, not this argument again.
Some ridiculous lists have been shown time and time again to be absurd. Tell us Dan, in WHICH science do these cretinists hold a doctorate? Chemistry? Astronomy? I notice that the site doesn’t mention it which leads me to believe it’s certainly something else other than Biology.
Look, there’s more scientists called Steve that believe in Evolution than there are creationist scientists of any kind.
db0
29 Jul 08 at 11:57 am (GMT)
Yes, we all heard of that old project Steve but if just click the name on that list I gave you it gives the credentials of the individual. But if you would like more there is plenty. Here is a large list: A SCIENTIFIC DISSENT FROM DARWINISM and another with comments: Creation Scientists and Teachers Comment
I am sure your presupposition can’t allow you to believe as these accredited scientists believe.
Dan
29 Jul 08 at 5:48 pm (GMT)
” We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”
Pretty much everyone can sign to that agreement. I’d sign it because I’m a skeptic about most things (even Evolution) and I agree that careful examination of the evidence should be encouraged.
Having said that, I also agree that the current evidence and examinations of it have only supported the theory, and it is by far the most complete explanation we have so far for the development of life.
Adrian Hayter
29 Jul 08 at 6:06 pm (GMT)
So what you’re saying is that you’re prepared to give credit to all these scientists of which the vast percentage have nothing to do with biology (seriously, geologists?) but you are prepared to ignore the scientific consensus of people who have actually studied the topic?
How exactly does that make sense?
It’s as inane as presenting a geologist arguing that the sun moves around the earth or an dentist making arguing that heart surgery is impossible…
db0
29 Jul 08 at 6:11 pm (GMT)
[...] few weeks ago I debunked a Christian’s view of Evolution and started a poll to see what percentage of readers believed Evolution. I predicted that the vast [...]
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13 Aug 08 at 2:19 pm (GMT)
okay i am a christian but you do have Some good reasons i don’t nescisarily belive your concept but i see where your coming from You ask why we believe in God and that we are stupid for believing that God couldn’t have just said BAM theres the humans BAM theres the apes but think who made the tiny little organism WHO made that organism thats what makes your idea so unbelievable. Good fight but God still won.
Madison
29 Sep 08 at 5:42 pm (GMT)