Keith Olbermann Deserves An Award
I don’t care if he didn’t write what he said (although I suspect he probably did), because the way he presented the message is worthy enough of some kind of recognition. He said it truthfully, emotionally, and successfully connected to his audience.
If you supported the ghastly proposition 8 in california, or the other propositions which have now enforced legal discrimination against people of different sexual orientations, please watch this video, and then tell me you don’t feel incredibly guilty.
(via Candy Coloured Frown)
P.S. Sorry about the lack of activity on the site, but I’ve had a busy week revising for tests and doing coursework! Should get my act back together by the weekend though.
Christ. I was against the thing even though I’m neither in California nor old enough to vote, and I STILL felt guilty hearing that speech.
It’s always good to hear someone moved to tears by altruism.
It pisses me off that people think this stuff is justified in some way. I don’t understand it.
Guilt? Guilt is a religious phenomenon. Atheist feel no guilt!
Keith Olbermann is a dope. His opinions aren’t worth listening to.
That was an excellent video! I’m glad I lived in Canada, which currently has more humanitarian spirit than the US (and allows gay marriage).
No worries about the lack of website activity. I’m experiencing the same academic overload as well.
roz, saying that an atheist has no guilt is like saying an atheist has no moral standards. That is simply not true. Guilt is a human phenomenon. Would you lack remorse if you would murder someone like an insane psychopath? Or are you simply a misinformed Christian?
I watched it live and was brought to tears. This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach, which was why I immediately searched for a youtube video of it because I knew it would be posted.
There’s actually a nationwide protest happening on Saturday against Proposition 8. Every state will be there and I will be at City Hall in Boston myself. I’m making signs for it tonight. :D
Wow…
I never knew Olbermann or any newscaster could talk in such a powerful fashion. I have never once listened to him – and now I know I was missing something.
Let’s become civilly empassioned by the issues of our day.
That video was fantastic.
Damn. Well stated.
I have a few things to say…
1) As an advocate for individuality, a libertarian, and a loving Christ follower, I am completely against proposition 8. I think it is ridiculous that the government has any say on who can get married. And you realize that this is what happens when you let the POPULAR vote control things don’t you? And extreme secularists tend to support this mindless majority rules bull crap… even though history has repeatedly demonstrated that it always ends in violence and misery. It is suppressive to individuality.
2) I don’t understand why people think it takes marriage to love someone.
3) Why would an atheist want to get married? What’s the point? Don’t say legal benefits because then you should be against married people getting legal benefits… not marriage rights. Marriage started in religion so why would you want anything to do with it?
4) The arguments on this site seem to rile other atheists up, but your stating all kinds of things that have been repeatedly stated. I literally see no reason to believe that you have any idea of what is truth and what is reality based on what I have read on this site. If you’re not going to compel believers to become non-believers with this, then you are sadly failing at what appears to be your goal. I don’t even see a point to this blog…
5) Talk to someone with a Ph.D in philosophy or physics about what you can and can’t know and about how much faith people must have to believe that science describes reality. (I say this as straight As, dean’s scholar, second year physics and math double major.)
Until then I feel like I’ve wasted half of an hour of my life on this site that’s just trying to put a bunch of people down for horrific mistakes made by PEOPLE, not religion. PEOPLE fuck religion up, religion doesn’t fuck PEOPLE up. You have shown that this blog is merely a regurgitation of thought… no fresh unique ideas.
@Bill
1. “this is what happens when you let the POPULAR vote control things” You are quite right. The majority, at times, kicks the minority right in the balls.
“And extreme secularists tend to support this mindless majority rules bull crap”
Whaaa…?
2) “I don’t understand why people think it takes marriage to love someone.”
Who are these people? Are they stupid? Did you make them up? I smell a strawman.
3) “Why would an atheist want to get married? What’s the point?”
While marriage may have been created by religion (and I haven’t seen any evidence to prove or disprove this one, although it sounds reasonable) Marriage is defined by our culture. We live in a culture that is very diverse and marriage is a part of it. Marriage is seen in our culture as an expression of love that two people share with one another. Its a celebration and a ceremony that brings to life the promise that two people make to one another. Religion isn’t really a part of that unless one wishes it to be.
4) “The arguments on this site seem to rile other atheists up, but your stating all kinds of things that have been repeatedly stated. I literally see no reason to believe that you have any idea of what is truth and what is reality based on what I have read on this site. If you’re not going to compel believers to become non-believers with this, then you are sadly failing at what appears to be your goal. I don’t even see a point to this blog…”
I haven’t read much on here yet, so you may be right. Sounds like fun though. ;)
5) Your first paragraph seems to be saying “I can get as much knowledge about reality from my religion of choice, as I can from using evidence and my five senses” or “Don’t knock faith, the same faith we all must put in science is what the rest of use to support our religion of choice.” If faith is really great and we all use it to discover the world around us, or at least trust our senses and the evidence of reality they find, then why waste such a great gift on something that we can’t sense, and has no evidence. Is it because you feel it in your heart? Good for you.
“PEOPLE fuck religion up, religion doesn’t fuck PEOPLE up.”
BULLSHIT!
“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
Wrong. This is what happens when the majority of people think gay marriage is wrong. Yes, there are problems with democracy, but it is one of the best systems we have at the moment, and if these protests show anything, it is that people can complain about the law and *hopefully* get it repealed.
I’m not against married people getting legal benefits, just as long as other couples (civil partnerships etc) can get the same legal benefits. Marriage is not only a religious ceremony though, but a social one. Arguing that because it started with religion is rather silly, because you could argue that for most inventions of the past 500 years. If the car was invented by a religious person (I don’t know for sure, I’m just using it as an example), then are atheists not to use cars? Of course not! Cars are beneficial to society in the same way marriages are.
I guess you haven’t seen my articles where I write about specific subjects and bring up my own personal views? I’m not trying to compel believers to become non-believers (though it would be nice). I write this blog for me; nobody else.
Faith is believing something without reason to. Science is the complete opposite.
Proof? Evidence? Anything to suggest this? The Bible is full of atrocities and bad morals that have affected people.
You spend 30 mins on this site and you expect me to accept your criticism? I’m sorry that I’m not good enough to have a fresh idea for every fucking post, but if you actually read the site completely you would see many times where I have spoken about things and caused debate because my ideas conflict with what is generally thought.
That said, I didn’t invite you here. This blog is my personal one and is controlled by nobody but me. If you don’t like what is being said, you don’t have to come here.
Bill sounds like a smart brain fucked up by religion.
retrogamer:
If you feel guilt or shame as an atheist, then you ought to adjust your sense of morality. You are probably still living a Christian morality. The wonderful thing about being an atheist is that you get to choose your own morality. If I should feel guilt, then by whose morality should speak guilt to me. The irrational theist’s? I feel NO GUILT in opposing the gays in marriage. It is bad for society, bad for children, bad for country. Let them go somewhere else for marriage.
:)
You don’t pick or choose a sense of morality if you’re an atheist or not. People don’t just become uncaring machines when they renounce any deities or phantoms because we are social animals and most of us are sympathetic to the needs of others.
It would seem that you are just a misinformed christian, also with typically christian views on gay marriage: hateful and hollow. It looks like you have chosen to be ignorant and bigoted without justification.
@Luis
However, according to Bill
If we combine these two statements I believe we will find that Bill is just fucked up.
Dear Q,
Don’t accuse me of being a Christian. I oppose gay relationships because they are an assault on our species. Regardless of why I oppose gay marriage, I feel no guilt. People feel guilt when they’ve done something that offends their morals. If you feel guilt, then perhaps you ought to go to church and deal with it. True Atheist feel no guilt. Otherwise, you are then promoting a certain morality. Whose morality gets to win? You might as well become a Christian if you are trying to say that we all subscribe to a common morality. Mine doesn’t require a god, maybe yours does.
@roz
Being an atheist does not mean that your morals are only as grounded as whatever inane whim you might be feeling at that moment in time. If it worked the way you are describing it then one would find themselves saying… “The action I just performed makes me feel guilty. To remedy this, Ill just be OK with that action instead of doing something to fix it.”
This line of reasoning may work when you are young and have little to no responsibilities in life. Once you grow up and get a life (you know.. like a girlfriend, a house, a child, a job, friends) this won’t work… unless your aim in life is to be a hermit, a liar, or an asshole that surrounds himself with people who lack any shred of self confidence.
@HidingGeryan,
Then I guess we should all become Christians? If you are saying that my morality works only for me and not for those around me, then should I consider the feelings of others greater than my own? If this is so, then perhaps Atheists should develop a morality book or just start following the Bible.
Hiding, what you are saying plays right into the hands of the Christians who say that Atheist have no morals. I am not saying that. Perhaps, they are right?
@roz
If this is really your outlook on life and you claim to be a “true atheist” then I am glad I’m not “true” either. I’m a normal atheist, and I accept that morality is defined by society.
@ Luis
And everyone for that matter…
I am not trying to make any point of pushing my religious views on anyone, only open-mindedness. I really don’t care if you or anyone else believes in God here… that is your choice. I am absolutely against absolutism! =)
I, along with many other people who study physics and math, do not believe in bullshit like ‘science proves God’s existence’ or ‘science disproves God’s existence’. I am knowledgeable enough of the way science works and answers questions to know that it doesn’t AT ALL interfere with my religious beliefs, and my religious beliefs do not AT ALL interfere with my love for science. I’m on my way to becoming a theoretical physicist and the idea that God exists will NEVER hold me back from questioning the nature of the universe or drive me to believe that science should work a certain way, because I see no relation between science and God.
But my belief in God isn’t even the reason why I am ‘religious’ anyways. The ONLY reason why I am a ‘Christian’ is because I have realized that the best way for me to find peace in the world is to act more like how we hear Christ acted. I don’t care about the magic tricks the Bible says he performed, I don’t care whether or not all the little anecdotes in the Bible are true, I don’t care if Mary was a virgin, and I don’t give a horse’s ass about the origin of the species. So in that sense, I’m not really a Christian by modern definition. I prefer Christ follower because of the way modern Churches have twisted Christianity.
I think it’s great that you guys on here acknowledge the significance of non-violence movements led by MLK, Ghandi, and Christ himself… The reason why I was so troubled reading the things on this site is because 1) it’s supposed to be about secularism and atheism, but the site is littered with left wing partisan bullshit… I mean… Kieth Olbermann? Seriously? He’s more of a Bitch than Ann Coulter! and 2) open-mindedness is supposed to be the heart of skepticism regarding religion, but this blog is dominated by people that have FAITH that there is no God. So you preach against faith when you can’t even recognize the faith under your own nose. Also, there are SO MANY generalizations people on here makes about religious people!
Very quickly (because it’s 5:30 am):
1) This site isn’t “supposed” to be about anything you think it is. Yes, it covers secularism and atheism, but it also covers stuff about my personal life, Linux, general ideas I have, etc. Perhaps the site is littered with left wing “bullshit” because I’m left wing…did that ever cross your mind? No! I don’t agree with everything Keith Olbermann says, but on this occasion he nailed the argument completely, and I think it was stronger because he said at the start that he didn’t have any link to gay people.
2) I have no idea where you get this idea about “faith there is not a god” because I’ve never found a person other than a theist who claims that atheists have this “faith”. Faith means believing something without proper evidence to support it. Atheists don’t “believe” anything, they reject a claim made by theists because of the lack of evidence. We aren’t claiming there is no God, we are simply saying there is no evidence to suggest there is one.
You have shown in your posts that you know absolutely nothing about what atheists think, and then you have the gall to claim that it is we who are the ones making “generalizations”. Unbelievable.
Adrian,
To your number 1:
It crossed my mind that you are left wing, and to me, that discredits your opinion to mean anything to me. But that’s okay… like you said… this blog is for you and that’s fine. I agree Kieth Olbermann made a fair assessment…
To your number 2:
The lack of any belief about the existence of God is agnosticism. Atheism is a disbelief.
Dictionary.com defines atheism as:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
I’m working off of widely accepted definitions… it’s pretty funny that you didn’t know that and you own a site called “atheistblogger.com”. You have repeatedly shown yourself to be poor with definitions. When you say things like ‘gall’ it makes me laugh. I like your articulation of words. You’re making an appeal to vocabulary, a common way to sway the minds of the people one is trying to manipulate.
Trust me… I’ve spent a lot of time in my life learning what the differences are between theism, deism, atheism, agnosticism, anti-theism, etc.
By the way, I change my mind about the usefulness of your site to me! This is like target practice for me, as I am finishing up my first semester of philosophy right now.
I can’t wait until you make another post! This is fun!
Oh and about what this site is supposed to be… your Technorati description says,
“The Atheist Blogger is a weblog devoted to atheism and anti-theism. Issues surrounding religion and atheism are talked about, no matter how controversial they might be.”
…?
Your assertions about me thinking I know this and that and that I know nothing about this or that don’t really make a lot of sense considering I’m the one working off of widely accepted general definitions of words that play a large role on this blog… words about which you tend to be careless as far as definitions go. What do you do in school anyways?
@Bill
So you claim to be open-minded yet reject anything that is brushed with a liberal attitude? Nice.
Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief in God, it is about whether or not God can be proven. Since you used Dictionary.com, I’ll use it too:
“an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.”
Huxley (the guy who came up with the term) coined it to express his doubt that you could ever “prove” or disprove something like God. Agnostics can have belief in gods, just as they can have disbeliefs. Myself and most atheists I have met would happily describe themselves as “agnostic atheist” because we don’t believe but don’t claim to be able to disprove.
As for your point about atheism being a belief / disbelief, you should read this wikipedia article to find out why there are two definitions in the dictionary, one for “belief” and one for “disbelief”. In my opinion, I don’t think I have a “belief” that there are no gods, but rather a “disbelief”. You don’t need faith to disbelieve something, since it isn’t “believing” in something.
Perhaps the phrase isn’t used as much wherever you come from, but I reckon every person in the UK knows what “gall” means and how it is used in conversation. I used it perfectly well, and your criticism of it seems to me rather petty.
My Technorati description is out of date. I put it up when I created the blog, and then several months later changed my direction completely. Technorati login seems to be down at the moment, but thanks for reminding me to change it.
Computer Science, and if you actually read my blog you might know that.
1) Left-wing is something a lot different from liberal attitude.. at least in the United States. Barack Obama has a liberal attitude, but it is arguable whether or not he is “left wing” or “hard left” if you will. And I’ve said before, the only thing I’m absolute about is to not be an absolutist! And you just seem to be a pretty liberal absolutist… that’s what discounts your opinion in my opinion. Politically, right-wingers and left-wingers just regurgitate what the party says. My girlfriend and her whole family are liberal, but I have a lot of respect for all of their opinions!
2) You clever limey! You managed to tack a word onto the debated word again to avoid the definition given! Wow!
3) About agnosticism, I guess one of the other definition on dictionary.com “The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.” seemed to be pretty close to yours… but in that sense, I guess I am an agnostic monotheist.
4) Computer Science… cool. Yeah I haven’t read any of your posts about that… that’s fine.
How exactly am I an absolutist? If I’ve understood you correctly, you think I’m some kind of totalitarian dictatorship supporter…or is this some other kind of political absolutism you are referring to?
Unless I’m reading the wrong conversation, the “debated word” was atheism, and I was agreeing with you on that point! I just furthered the discussion by pointing out why Dictionary.com lists two definitions (one for weak atheism, one for strong). How did I “avoid” the definition???
Glad to hear it.
Guilty because of what? The incoherent rantings of an ignorant left-wing zealot?