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	<title>Comments on: Scale of Belief, Knowledge, &amp; Certainty</title>
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		<title>By: Slater</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4918</link>
		<dc:creator>Slater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4918</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say &quot;nearly perfect&quot; as well, but impossible to improve, if it must be kept as one scale. 
The reason I don&#039;t know where I rank on it, is because I&#039;m a 7 on most defined gods - we CAN prove that Jehova as described in the Bible, for instance, doesn&#039;t exist, because he is attributed mutually exclusive properties. Just as we can know that a square circle cannot exist, we can know that an apathetic and flawless but angry and jealous god cannot exist. But when talking about gods and higher entities in general, I&#039;m a 6. I cannot say that no higher creature of some form doesn&#039;t exist somewhere - that would require looking everywhere at once, and even then it could just be invisible. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;d say &quot;nearly perfect&quot; as well, but impossible to improve, if it must be kept as one scale.<br />
The reason I don&#039;t know where I rank on it, is because I&#039;m a 7 on most defined gods &#8211; we CAN prove that Jehova as described in the Bible, for instance, doesn&#039;t exist, because he is attributed mutually exclusive properties. Just as we can know that a square circle cannot exist, we can know that an apathetic and flawless but angry and jealous god cannot exist. But when talking about gods and higher entities in general, I&#039;m a 6. I cannot say that no higher creature of some form doesn&#039;t exist somewhere &#8211; that would require looking everywhere at once, and even then it could just be invisible.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Hayter</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4908</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Hayter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4908</guid>
		<description>My apologies. I can&#039;t seem to break the habit of capitalising the word &quot;god&quot;. My excuse is that I refer to the &quot;God idea&quot;, and as it is an important idea it requires capitalisation. Any time I mention &quot;God&quot; instead of &quot;god/gods&quot; you can be pretty sure I mean the whole idea of &quot;God&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies. I can&#039;t seem to break the habit of capitalising the word &quot;god&quot;. My excuse is that I refer to the &quot;God idea&quot;, and as it is an important idea it requires capitalisation. Any time I mention &quot;God&quot; instead of &quot;god/gods&quot; you can be pretty sure I mean the whole idea of &quot;God&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: DiscoIgno</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4907</link>
		<dc:creator>DiscoIgno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4907</guid>
		<description>You write &quot;God&quot; (capitalized). What god are we talking about here? Atheism and agnosticism are about gods in general, not just one god or one type of god (such as a creator-god). 
 
If you make it general, such as any god or gods, then I would be square on #4, with an asterisk. That asterisk would read that I&#039;m not 100% uncertain about what I believe (I know what I believe), I just have no belief either way and don&#039;t care to. I don&#039;t believe a god exists nor do I believe no gods exist -- and I&#039;m agnostic. 
 
If the scale is based on the Judeo-Christian god, then I&#039;m a 7 (6.99... to be technical). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write &quot;God&quot; (capitalized). What god are we talking about here? Atheism and agnosticism are about gods in general, not just one god or one type of god (such as a creator-god). </p>
<p>If you make it general, such as any god or gods, then I would be square on #4, with an asterisk. That asterisk would read that I&#039;m not 100% uncertain about what I believe (I know what I believe), I just have no belief either way and don&#039;t care to. I don&#039;t believe a god exists nor do I believe no gods exist &#8212; and I&#039;m agnostic. </p>
<p>If the scale is based on the Judeo-Christian god, then I&#039;m a 7 (6.99&#8230; to be technical).</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4879</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4879</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just wondering if we&#039;ve been trapped and the whole paradigm and argument has been defined Christians? They set up the rules and we are forced to argue positions in a flawed system.  
 
I like to view the universe and our knowledge of it from a position of neutrality. &quot; We just are.&quot; The Universe just is.&quot; From there, as humans, everything begins to fall in place according to how proven it is. I picture it like a circle where truth is in the center and all that we know and observer falls outside us. So if you are atheist, 1+1=2 is very close by, evolution is further out (perhaps half way out of the circle and Christianity is all the way on the edge of this circle. Face it, they can&#039;t prove anything they believe. 
 
The way I see it, we need to frame this argument as what is provable? Unfortunately, we are forced to argue with &quot;Believers&quot; as though they stand on solid ground when in fact, their positions are so far outside our ability to explain.  Even though we have mountains of provable and predictable science, they hold their &quot;beliefs&quot; up as possible and they do so as though their positions are equal to all the scientific knowledge that has been defined.  
 
Is there a god? I would put my answer to this question 7/8th way out. For one, it&#039;s unimportant and two, the mere question has been defined by the Christian Authority that has ruled for so long (too long) and three, I don&#039;t think we are to the point where we can totally disprove it. However, I don&#039;t think we are really all that prepared to define what it is we think this god is to begin with; everyone has a different opinion so proving something that we can&#039;t even define is a bit nutty.  
 
 It burns me up when these Intelligent Designers pretend to be working in science; it&#039;s a farce and I don&#039;t think we should continue to accept their rules. These rules were set down thousands of years ago and they&#039;ve entrenched themselves into our discourse.  
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m just wondering if we&#039;ve been trapped and the whole paradigm and argument has been defined Christians? They set up the rules and we are forced to argue positions in a flawed system.  </p>
<p>I like to view the universe and our knowledge of it from a position of neutrality. &quot; We just are.&quot; The Universe just is.&quot; From there, as humans, everything begins to fall in place according to how proven it is. I picture it like a circle where truth is in the center and all that we know and observer falls outside us. So if you are atheist, 1+1=2 is very close by, evolution is further out (perhaps half way out of the circle and Christianity is all the way on the edge of this circle. Face it, they can&#039;t prove anything they believe. </p>
<p>The way I see it, we need to frame this argument as what is provable? Unfortunately, we are forced to argue with &quot;Believers&quot; as though they stand on solid ground when in fact, their positions are so far outside our ability to explain.  Even though we have mountains of provable and predictable science, they hold their &quot;beliefs&quot; up as possible and they do so as though their positions are equal to all the scientific knowledge that has been defined.  </p>
<p>Is there a god? I would put my answer to this question 7/8th way out. For one, it&#039;s unimportant and two, the mere question has been defined by the Christian Authority that has ruled for so long (too long) and three, I don&#039;t think we are to the point where we can totally disprove it. However, I don&#039;t think we are really all that prepared to define what it is we think this god is to begin with; everyone has a different opinion so proving something that we can&#039;t even define is a bit nutty.  </p>
<p> It burns me up when these Intelligent Designers pretend to be working in science; it&#039;s a farce and I don&#039;t think we should continue to accept their rules. These rules were set down thousands of years ago and they&#039;ve entrenched themselves into our discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4862</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4862</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m a little late to the party here, but your post was very thought provoking, so I thought I&#039;d add my thoughts. 
 
Whichever way you view a/gnosticism, IMO it only serves to muddy the waters when it comes to discussing religion. Religion is purely about faith, and it is farcical to start talking about religion in terms of true knowledge, as it doesn&#039;t exist, and will never exist. Imagine if there was a predictable, replicable procedure that would confirm the existance of a Judeo-Christian god (for example)- faith would be null and void as it would simply become a case of &quot;Do I want to live in heaven for eternity&quot; or &quot;Do I want to burn in hell for eternity&quot;.  
 
Not that I necessariy disagree with your scale (although the &quot;apatheist&quot; part is a little bit ropey, those folks don&#039;t care either way which really adds a fourth dimension to the debate), I just think that it detracts from more important matters. 
 
Love the blog by the way. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#039;m a little late to the party here, but your post was very thought provoking, so I thought I&#039;d add my thoughts. </p>
<p>Whichever way you view a/gnosticism, IMO it only serves to muddy the waters when it comes to discussing religion. Religion is purely about faith, and it is farcical to start talking about religion in terms of true knowledge, as it doesn&#039;t exist, and will never exist. Imagine if there was a predictable, replicable procedure that would confirm the existance of a Judeo-Christian god (for example)- faith would be null and void as it would simply become a case of &quot;Do I want to live in heaven for eternity&quot; or &quot;Do I want to burn in hell for eternity&quot;.  </p>
<p>Not that I necessariy disagree with your scale (although the &quot;apatheist&quot; part is a little bit ropey, those folks don&#039;t care either way which really adds a fourth dimension to the debate), I just think that it detracts from more important matters. </p>
<p>Love the blog by the way.</p>
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		<title>By: gadfly</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4860</link>
		<dc:creator>gadfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4860</guid>
		<description>Agnostisizm, agreed- if something &quot;is&quot; unprovable it doesn&#039;t seem reasonable to be certain about it. But I do not understand how one  can be 100% certain that god&#039;s existence is &quot;unprovable&quot;. How does one reach such a high degree of certitude about being uncertain of something? I see this is a real issue for anyone who wants to take a reasoned approach to agnosticism. It seems to be the &quot;safer&quot; road by being open to all possibilities, but at the same time, by conceding the &quot;unprovability&quot; of god, the agnosticism is now closed to any attempt to resolve this deep question- how are they so sure it cannot be resolved?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agnostisizm, agreed- if something &quot;is&quot; unprovable it doesn&#039;t seem reasonable to be certain about it. But I do not understand how one  can be 100% certain that god&#039;s existence is &quot;unprovable&quot;. How does one reach such a high degree of certitude about being uncertain of something? I see this is a real issue for anyone who wants to take a reasoned approach to agnosticism. It seems to be the &quot;safer&quot; road by being open to all possibilities, but at the same time, by conceding the &quot;unprovability&quot; of god, the agnosticism is now closed to any attempt to resolve this deep question- how are they so sure it cannot be resolved?</p>
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		<title>By: Agnostisizm</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4858</link>
		<dc:creator>Agnostisizm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 08:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4858</guid>
		<description>Very nice post, way much better than dawkins&#039; scale. however I don&#039;t get how can one be 100% certain about something that is unprovable. Anyway, I rank myself a 6 on this scale too. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice post, way much better than dawkins&#039; scale. however I don&#039;t get how can one be 100% certain about something that is unprovable. Anyway, I rank myself a 6 on this scale too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Petersen</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4857</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 07:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4857</guid>
		<description>I just finished reading the book &lt;a href=&quot;&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;&quot;Godless&quot; by Dan Barker.&lt;/a&gt; Would you believe he went from being a No. 1 to being a No. 7? I&#039;ve heard of other people who became atheist because they actually read the Bible and were horrified by what they found there. Barker goes into great detail as to how he made the transformation and why. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished reading the book <a href="" target="_blank">&quot;Godless&quot; by Dan Barker.</a> Would you believe he went from being a No. 1 to being a No. 7? I&#039;ve heard of other people who became atheist because they actually read the Bible and were horrified by what they found there. Barker goes into great detail as to how he made the transformation and why.</p>
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		<title>By: McBloggenstein</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4852</link>
		<dc:creator>McBloggenstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4852</guid>
		<description>That is a pretty good scale.  I have only recently started reading The God Delusion, so I haven&#039;t gotten to his scale yet, but I can&#039;t imagine there being a better one. 
 
I feel like most people I&#039;ve known in my life are a 4 (Apatheist), but when pressed about the subject, would then act as if they were a 3 or a 2.  It&#039;s like 98% of the time they don&#039;t even think about God or his existence, and live their lives like they don&#039;t care either way, but when asked, they would still say they believe, and would refuse to be labeled an agnostic or atheist, yet probably don&#039;t even know why.  Weird. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a pretty good scale.  I have only recently started reading The God Delusion, so I haven&#039;t gotten to his scale yet, but I can&#039;t imagine there being a better one. </p>
<p>I feel like most people I&#039;ve known in my life are a 4 (Apatheist), but when pressed about the subject, would then act as if they were a 3 or a 2.  It&#039;s like 98% of the time they don&#039;t even think about God or his existence, and live their lives like they don&#039;t care either way, but when asked, they would still say they believe, and would refuse to be labeled an agnostic or atheist, yet probably don&#039;t even know why.  Weird.</p>
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		<title>By: Waldheri</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/12/23/scale-of-belief-knowledge-certainty/comment-page-1/#comment-4849</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldheri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=982#comment-4849</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nearly&quot; perfect? What would you suggest to to amend? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Nearly&quot; perfect? What would you suggest to to amend?</p>
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