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	<title>Comments on: An Atheist&#8217;s Alpha Weekend</title>
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		<title>By: PaulSJenkins</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5680</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulSJenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5680</guid>
		<description>By weighing up the pros and cons, I mean I would test my prospective actions against the moral code built into me by evolution. This code is a loose set of criteria that I intuitively accept as likely to lead to desirable results if used to guide decisions over a wide range of situations and actions. It&#039;s intuitive because it is itself the result of many generations of evolution. It&#039;s not, however, infallible, and some situations require more rigorous analysis as to the range of possible outcomes resulting from different actions. 
 
I would expect others (but not necessarily everyone) to agree with ethical choices derived from these criteria because those others also have similar ethical intuitions resulting from the same evolutionary process. 
 
The human animal is good at pattern-recognition, so naturally the criteria are presented in a mode where they can be quickly compared to any given situation to see what fits best. 
 
Any moral code used in this way is not absolute. The criteria are short-hand bullet-points on a handy list - useful for quick reference when experiencing moral indecision: don&#039;t kill, steal or lie, to give a few simple examples. These are not hard-and-fast unbreakable commandments. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By weighing up the pros and cons, I mean I would test my prospective actions against the moral code built into me by evolution. This code is a loose set of criteria that I intuitively accept as likely to lead to desirable results if used to guide decisions over a wide range of situations and actions. It&#039;s intuitive because it is itself the result of many generations of evolution. It&#039;s not, however, infallible, and some situations require more rigorous analysis as to the range of possible outcomes resulting from different actions. </p>
<p>I would expect others (but not necessarily everyone) to agree with ethical choices derived from these criteria because those others also have similar ethical intuitions resulting from the same evolutionary process. </p>
<p>The human animal is good at pattern-recognition, so naturally the criteria are presented in a mode where they can be quickly compared to any given situation to see what fits best. </p>
<p>Any moral code used in this way is not absolute. The criteria are short-hand bullet-points on a handy list &#8211; useful for quick reference when experiencing moral indecision: don&#039;t kill, steal or lie, to give a few simple examples. These are not hard-and-fast unbreakable commandments.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Huxley</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5678</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Huxley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5678</guid>
		<description>OK, so we&#039;re all happy with my (which as far as I can tell is Doug Wilson&#039;s) views on slavery. 
 
So by what means do you weigh up the pros and cons, and how does this fit with an atheistic/evolutionary worldview? And why should everyone else agree with your ethic? Imagine you were the one trying to abolish the slave trade- why should (that&#039;s a moral should) anyone agree with you and stop enforcing slavery? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so we&#039;re all happy with my (which as far as I can tell is Doug Wilson&#039;s) views on slavery. </p>
<p>So by what means do you weigh up the pros and cons, and how does this fit with an atheistic/evolutionary worldview? And why should everyone else agree with your ethic? Imagine you were the one trying to abolish the slave trade- why should (that&#039;s a moral should) anyone agree with you and stop enforcing slavery?</p>
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		<title>By: PaulSJenkins</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5661</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulSJenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5661</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting variation on &quot;that&#039;s not &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; religion.&quot; (&quot;That&#039;s not &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; slavery!&quot;) The kind of slavery people generally agree is morally wrong is the kind where the slaves have no say in the matter. The kind of slavery you describe is simply a business transaction. 
 
As for &quot;how can an atheist be against slavery&quot; - easy, it says here in my little book that slavery is wrong. I don&#039;t need to consider the consequences of my actions or opinions, I just need to follow the instructions in my little book. If I didn&#039;t have my little book, I might have to weigh the pros and cons, and consider how I would feel if someone were to enslave me (and my family and friends, and their families) against my will. But I&#039;d rather just follow my little book. Now, where did I put it? 
 
Oh, I forgot. I don&#039;t have one. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#039;s an interesting variation on &quot;that&#039;s not <i>my</i> religion.&quot; (&quot;That&#039;s not <i>my</i> slavery!&quot;) The kind of slavery people generally agree is morally wrong is the kind where the slaves have no say in the matter. The kind of slavery you describe is simply a business transaction. </p>
<p>As for &quot;how can an atheist be against slavery&quot; &#8211; easy, it says here in my little book that slavery is wrong. I don&#039;t need to consider the consequences of my actions or opinions, I just need to follow the instructions in my little book. If I didn&#039;t have my little book, I might have to weigh the pros and cons, and consider how I would feel if someone were to enslave me (and my family and friends, and their families) against my will. But I&#039;d rather just follow my little book. Now, where did I put it? </p>
<p>Oh, I forgot. I don&#039;t have one.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Huxley</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5660</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Huxley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5660</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m talking about Biblical slavery, not the situation at the time of Mr Wilberforce and pretty much all of human history thus far. I condemn the slave trade, and all the abuses that have gone on. 
 
Slavery ruled by Biblical law is a way of paying off your debts. You&#039;ve got yourself into financial trouble, or you&#039;ve stolen a load of sheep and you have to pay back with money you don&#039;t have. All you have is yourself. Slavery allows you to sell yourself for a period of time (not forever, all dependent on where you are in the Jewish calendar) to work for and be looked after by a master. 
 
The master has to feed you, house you and release you after a certain time. In return you pay off all your debts. If, when it&#039;s your time to go free you don&#039;t want to, you have the option of becoming a permanent slave. 
 
So what have we got? Someone voluntarily getting their debts paid off by working full time for someone who pays for their upkeep. In other words, a pretty similar scenario to modern day employment. Or, at worst, modern day imprisonment. 
 
So what is &lt;i&gt;necessarily&lt;/i&gt; wrong about slavery? By what ethic can what I&#039;ve put above be condemned? I&#039;d be interested to hear, particularly from those who claim not to be religious. 
 
May I repeat once more, I am anti slave trade and had I been an MP at Wilberforce&#039;s time I would have been at his side the whole way through. He was fighting against a completely corrupt system with involuntary slaves. I do not have one breath of argument in favour of that. 
 
Interestingly though, unless you have some kind of religious dogma yourself, how can an atheist be against slavery and remain consistent to his/her atheism? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m talking about Biblical slavery, not the situation at the time of Mr Wilberforce and pretty much all of human history thus far. I condemn the slave trade, and all the abuses that have gone on. </p>
<p>Slavery ruled by Biblical law is a way of paying off your debts. You&#039;ve got yourself into financial trouble, or you&#039;ve stolen a load of sheep and you have to pay back with money you don&#039;t have. All you have is yourself. Slavery allows you to sell yourself for a period of time (not forever, all dependent on where you are in the Jewish calendar) to work for and be looked after by a master. </p>
<p>The master has to feed you, house you and release you after a certain time. In return you pay off all your debts. If, when it&#039;s your time to go free you don&#039;t want to, you have the option of becoming a permanent slave. </p>
<p>So what have we got? Someone voluntarily getting their debts paid off by working full time for someone who pays for their upkeep. In other words, a pretty similar scenario to modern day employment. Or, at worst, modern day imprisonment. </p>
<p>So what is <i>necessarily</i> wrong about slavery? By what ethic can what I&#039;ve put above be condemned? I&#039;d be interested to hear, particularly from those who claim not to be religious. </p>
<p>May I repeat once more, I am anti slave trade and had I been an MP at Wilberforce&#039;s time I would have been at his side the whole way through. He was fighting against a completely corrupt system with involuntary slaves. I do not have one breath of argument in favour of that. </p>
<p>Interestingly though, unless you have some kind of religious dogma yourself, how can an atheist be against slavery and remain consistent to his/her atheism?</p>
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		<title>By: PaulSJenkins</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5658</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulSJenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5658</guid>
		<description>Slavery is the legal ownership of a person by another person. How is this acceptable? Under what conditions would you consent to being the legal property of another person (bearing in mind that if you were a slave you&#039;d actually have no say in the matter)? 
 
&lt;i&gt;&quot;Going into slavery is entirely voluntary...&quot;&lt;/i&gt; Really? This is an interesting interpretation of &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;voluntary&lt;/i&gt;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slavery is the legal ownership of a person by another person. How is this acceptable? Under what conditions would you consent to being the legal property of another person (bearing in mind that if you were a slave you&#039;d actually have no say in the matter)? </p>
<p><i>&quot;Going into slavery is entirely voluntary&#8230;&quot;</i> Really? This is an interesting interpretation of <i>entirely</i> and <i>voluntary</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Huxley</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5656</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Huxley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5656</guid>
		<description>Well, slavery is never condemned in the Bible. Lots of laws are there to protect slaves, who, incidentally are set free every 7 years (unless they choose to stay slaves). Going into slavery is entirely voluntary, except in the case of a criminal, where slavery is the equivalent of prison. 
 
Do you guys believe in prison? How is that a better system (or indeed different system) than a period of slavery for criminals? 
 
Moreover, tell me why from your perspective slavery is wrong? Isn&#039;t it just matter in motion? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, slavery is never condemned in the Bible. Lots of laws are there to protect slaves, who, incidentally are set free every 7 years (unless they choose to stay slaves). Going into slavery is entirely voluntary, except in the case of a criminal, where slavery is the equivalent of prison. </p>
<p>Do you guys believe in prison? How is that a better system (or indeed different system) than a period of slavery for criminals? </p>
<p>Moreover, tell me why from your perspective slavery is wrong? Isn&#039;t it just matter in motion?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Hayter</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5655</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Hayter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5655</guid>
		<description>You want him to prove that you killed your case? It was his opinion; nothing provable about it. 
 
We want to know why you think it is OK to own a slave... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You want him to prove that you killed your case? It was his opinion; nothing provable about it. </p>
<p>We want to know why you think it is OK to own a slave&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Huxley</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5654</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Huxley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5654</guid>
		<description>Prove it. Go on, you&#039;re the rational ones... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prove it. Go on, you&#039;re the rational ones&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Alvarez</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5652</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Alvarez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5652</guid>
		<description>Yeah... you definitely killed your case there with the slave argument. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah&#8230; you definitely killed your case there with the slave argument.</p>
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		<title>By: John Rico</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/07/14/an-atheists-alpha-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-5633</link>
		<dc:creator>John Rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1431#comment-5633</guid>
		<description>hey guys, this is rico here...thanks for your support!  it makes it all worthwhile! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey guys, this is rico here&#8230;thanks for your support!  it makes it all worthwhile!</p>
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