Ray Comfort’s latest stroll into the land of irrational thought has produced yet another blog post that attempts to link the theory of evolution with Adolf Hitler. It’s common knowledge that Hitler was a creationist, at most believing in some form of “micro-evolution”. Hitler never mentioned Darwin in any of his books, and the mentions of “evolution” that Ray gives us are almost all references to social evolution. Hitler can be accurately described as a social Darwinist, a political theory that has no relation to Darwin or to the biological theory of evolution that is studied today ^[1][2]. With this in mind, after reading through the 5 or so quotes in the post, the rational thinker is left with the resounding question “Ok, so what?”.

Let’s leave the fact that Hitler was a creationist, that his politics were not based on science but on racism and white supremacy. Instead, I want to examine the “so what?” that often gets ignored, yet is actually very important in analyzing Comfort’s argument. We shall begin by assuming that Ray Comfort is completely correct; that Hitler was a believer in the theory of evolution. We shall also assume that Hitler was so devoted to the theory, he decided to use it through social Darwinism in order to justify genocide. What does this tell us about the theory of evolution? Nothing. A theory is not defined by how people use it, but by what it tells us. The theory of evolution says nothing of “higher species” or that organisms must systematically wipe out all those who are “inferior”. In fact, the theory of evolution gives us no help in pinpointing which species are “more evolved” than others, or even what that would entail.

For instance, human beings are considered to be more evolved because of our consciousness, yet some bacteria have genomes hundreds of times larger than our own. So how do we calculate inferiority when we have two opposing lines of measurement, one based on evolved attributes, the other based on number of mutations. I don’t think one could make a good argument for either, especially given the further problem of how to compare attributes (is consciousness a better attribute than metabolizing citrate for example?). This all points to the conclusion that most would agree on; that science tells us about the universe in which we live by describing and explaining it, but it does not tell us what to do with this knowledge.

Science told us how to make the nuclear bomb, but science did not tell us to drop these bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. If science was responsible for these actions, then you could easily justify Newton as responsible for the deaths of everyone killed by projectiles. The reason creationists like Comfort do not extend their argument to include men like Newton is that they accept the theory of gravity (and yes, it is just a theory Ray). By holding Darwin and his theory as responsible for the actions of men he never knew, yet not doing the same for other scientists like Newton, Nobel, Einstein, etc reveals Ray’s dishonesty and unwillingness to discuss evolution on an intellectual level. Instead, he prefers to launch a thinkly veiled ad-hominem attack in the hopes that people will focus on the supposed “link” and not the attack itself. This may have worked well for him in the past, but not today, and not on this blog.

Possibly Related Posts:

• Thunderf00t vs. Ray Comfort
• (Almost) Daily Dose of Comfort – The Birdlike Reptile
• (Almost) Daily Dose of Comfort – Ray’s “Apology”
• Children of Evolution
• The Endless Loop of Ray Comfort’s Mind

H/T to Pharyngula

Possibly Related Posts:

• Thunderf00t vs. Ray Comfort
• (Almost) Daily Dose of Comfort -- Ray’s “Apology”
• “On the Origin of Species” Turns 150
• Charles Darwin 200th Anniversary £2 Coin
• (Almost) Daily Dose of Comfort -- Hilter & Evolution

Adrian Hayter: Now available in CANDY!!!

The latest Carnival of the Godless is up at The Greenbelt, so go over there and check it out! Every member of the carnival (myself included) got a little love heart made for them in honour of the quickly approaching Valentine’s Day. Speaking of which, this Valentine’s Day I will be in London visiting the Darwin Exhibition at the Natural History Museum, and then I will be marching to the Italian Embassy to protest the medieval attitudes of the Vatican have against women and homosexuals. I’ll be taking photos at both events, and hopefully I’ll be able to link my blog to my facebook albums easily thanks to a new plugin I’m trying out.

Anyway, the next CotG is arriving here in two weeks time on the 22nd Feb, so don’t forget to send me your submissions! See you then (if not before).

Possibly Related Posts:

• Carnival of the Godless #124
• Carnival of the Godless #122
• Carnival of the Godless #121
• Carnival of the Godless #114
• Children of Evolution

Onto the topic of this article. I was contacted a week ago by a muslim named “Abu” who opened his email like so:

right in this moment in time I’d love to lose my rag bang the computer and
scream infernally! But I’d like to alter your skewed views on life and the
pointless, deity-less movement that is atheism. Why verily only the arrogant,
proud, the incessently stupid believe in atheism…

He outlined what he thought were good arguments against atheism, including the “There are no atheists in foxholes” argument and Pascal’s wager (both easily refutable). The ongoing discussion has covered about 6 emails now and they are a pain to read all at once, so I’ve chosen the best bits for you:

Islam is all the religions in one. We believe in Jesus, Moses and all he bibles and scriptures given to them bible, torah etc.
…
There is no exclusitivity in Islam. Islam encompasses all religionns.

Of course religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikhism, Pastafarianism don’t count…

Scientifically you will find the water of both oceans (atlantic and pacific) can not overlap due to the difference in water types and the fact that crusts and plates ensures this.

Yup, apparently there is some kind of magical barrier that separates the waters of every ocean. Forget that the Earth really only has one ocean and the others are all man-designated areas based mainly on the continents they surround. Forget that the Pacific plate is actually smaller than the Pacific Ocean, and the Pacific Ocean actually rests on about 4 plates (Pacific, Nazca, Australian, North American).

Now il move onto one of the fundamental lie if your belief – darwins theory of evolution. Let me ask you this – if monkeys are continually evolving into humans over a long period of time (thousand,millions of years) then why aren’t their currnyly any monkeys which are 50% evolved quarter involved? There is a distict difference between monkeys and humans!

I don’t know how many times I’ll have to shout “No evolutionist has ever said we evolved from monkeys!” at creationists before they actually listen to me. After I gave a detailed explanation of our Evolution to him he responded with:

you spoke absolute nonsense and plain bullshit about this so wel move on because your argument doesn’t deserve justification.

I can just see the thought process in his brain: too..much….information….must…resort to…insults and…lousy…excuses…

Some have mentioned the invention of the ‘hydrogen’ car this would be incompatible you use in the earth for a long period if time because hydrogen based chemicals released into the atmosphere would diffuse and affect the pollution levels ti such an extent to which the earth would be unbreathable.

Hydrogen + Oxygen + HEAT => DEATH + POLLUTION apparently. I always knew those lab experiments I did when I was 12 were dangerous…damn you school! Of course those of you who actually know how Hydrogen cars work will understand that the products of the above reaction are HEAT (which is converted into Electricity) and WATER.

Cars running on crude oil are naturally compatible with The atmosphere. Cars with oil generate the release of nitrogen which has no major impact on the earth as earth atmosphere equivalates nitrogen
to be 76%. I don’t know the exact percentage.

The only bit of science he got spot on. Unfortunately this only works with perfect combustion of petrol, and so far we haven’t got an engine that does it perfectly, hence all the carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and hydrocarbons which ARE dangerous to the atmosphere…

Scientists and consensus agrees on the existence of the soul. What determines death? You say the heart stops, brain switches off WRONG. What determines death is the soul departing.

Islamic scientists might say the soul exists, but when I asked him for a peer-reviewed document that came to this conclusion it took him 3 emails ignoring my request and then finally a “do a google search” response which he promised would return a load of accounts from people with PhD’s. Of course I know that a PhD means absolutely nothing in the scientific world unless you have a peer-reviewed article to go with it (just look at Kent Hovind).

Here is a fantastic quote though:

Have you ever been to anyones deathbed? Just when death is imminent. You can determine the soul has left the body as the human body has one last minor struggle before the soul leaves the nose causing the nose to bend and become crooked. It is clearly visible and thus the soul
departs.

Sadly I was at my grandmothers side when she died 3 years ago, and I saw no such bending of the nose. Her last breath was pretty much a normal sigh, but then she did have breathing tubes going into her nose, so perhaps the soul went through one of them? When I told him I had never heard of such an incident being reported he assured me that if the mouth is open the soul exits through that. I reckon I’ll perform a test when I’m on my deathbed: Tape up my mouth, nostrils, ears maybe, and see how my “soul” likes that. Heck, if death only occurs when the soul leaves the body like he claims, I might be able to live forever! (albeit uncomfortably)

For the finale, one last attack of Evolution:

Darwin used his pathetic theory to exploit the anti church trend the country was falling into. Due to fresh controversies about the bible many people were adipting the stance of renegade against popular beliefs. Darwin merely instigated the bandwagon as it were. Look let’s please drop this Darwin debarcle. You gave a drab argument about orangatans. The simple fact is is that this specie or any other specie is not any closer to taking the final form of a human.

I’m sure he spent 5 years on a boat so he could have an alibi when he was plotting to take down religion. It’s all a conspiracy I tell you! The finches were in on it as well!

Possibly Related Posts:

• Religion Destroys Cognitive Ability
• More Conversations With The Deluded
• Atheism Is Not A Religion
• God & Darwin
• An Evening with Michael Shermer: Why People Believe Weird Things

There are quite a few sites for working out your timezone compared to GMT, but I have found an easy and accurate one: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

The discussion will take place on MSGPlus, in the temporary channel #atheist-book-club. If you already know how to use IRC, you will need to enter the following details into your IRC client:

Server: irc.msgplus.net

Port: 6667

Channel: #atheist-book-club

If you have never used IRC before, I have set up a Java Applet on the forums. It requires you to have Java installed on your computer (most people do) and for JavaScript to be enabled in your web browser.

You can either register / log into the forums or join the chat as a guest. It’s open to all.

http://atheistblogger.com/forums/chat.php

After the discussion, I will create a forum thread so that other people who couldn’t make the IRC chat can voice their opinions of the book. Speaking of which, I’d better get it finished!

Possibly Related Posts:

• Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design
• Carnival of the Godless #110
• Book Club Discussions & Vote – 29th June
• Book Club Vote – 1st May 2008
• Carnival Of The Godless #90

The book chosen is Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design by Michael Shermer.

It can be found in both hardback and paperback at Amazon, although currently it is actually cheaper to buy in hardback (a special deal).

Thanks to all who are participating, and I hope you enjoy the book!

Possibly Related Posts:

• Book Club Discussions & Vote – 29th June
• Book Club Discussions – 30th May 2008
• The Atheist Blogger Book Club
• Some Changes To The Book Club Procedure…
• I Sold My Soul On EBay By Hemant Mehta