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	<title>The Atheist Blogger &#187; westboro baptist church</title>
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		<title>UK Government Bans Westboro Baptist Church</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/02/20/uk-government-bans-westboro-baptist-church/</link>
		<comments>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/02/20/uk-government-bans-westboro-baptist-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Hayter</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[general]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[islam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fitna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[free speech]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[freedom of speech]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[geert wilders]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hate speech]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[incitement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[westboro baptist church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I give my views on the censorship of free speech after the UK government bans both Geert Wilders and the Westboro Baptist Church from entering the UK.]]></description>
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<dl class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 212px;">
<dt class="wp-caption-dt"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wilders.jpg"><img title="{{nl|zelf genomen foto}}" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Wilders.jpg/202px-Wilders.jpg" alt="{{nl|zelf genomen foto}}" width="202" height="214" /></a></dt>
<dd class="wp-caption-dd zemanta-img-attribution" style="font-size: 0.8em;">Image via <a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wilders.jpg">Wikipedia</a></dd>
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<p>If there is anything to be said of the UK government&#8217;s actions on free speech this week, it is that they are consistent. First, they <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7885918.stm">ban Geert Wilders</a>, an elected politician in the Netherlands from entering the UK to show his film to the House of Lords (an event <strong>he was invited to</strong> I might add). Geert Wilders&#8217; movie &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)">Fitna</a>&#8221; portrays the Qur&#8217;an as a book filled with hate, and argues that the teachings within it have encouraged followers to commit terrorism and violence towards women. All of his accusations are accurate. The Qur&#8217;an has many examples of both <a href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/int/long.html">intolerance</a> and <a href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/cruelty/long.html">violence</a> in its pages, and this needs to be brought to attention of politicians if they are going to start making laws against &#8220;discrimination&#8221; of religions.</p>
<p>Secondly, the UK government announced today that the Westboro Baptist Church were <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7898972.stm?lss">banned from the UK</a>. The group, known for protesting the funerals of dead soldiers and pro-gay events, had planned on coming to the UK to <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4640967/Westboro-Baptist-Church-announces-first-anti-homosexuality-picket-in-Britain.html">protest a play that was being performed</a>. The play was about the torture and murder of a gay American student, and has been the target of the church before in the US. I wrote a blog post yesterday that argued for the right of the WBC to picket the event, on the ground of free speech. They weren&#8217;t telling people to go out and kill gay people (as Muslim clerics often preach) but instead they were preaching what the Bible says, that homosexuality is an &#8220;abomination&#8221;.</p>
<p>This is what angers me the most. That it is somehow &#8220;ok&#8221; to pick and choose what freedom of speech entails; that just because large amounts of Muslims believe that killing non-believers is a divine right, to reject that view and argue against it is a violation of religious freedom; that fringe groups wanting to express ideas cannot express them if they might somehow upset the status quo. Sure, what the WBC preach is hatred, but the fact that we recognise it as hatred is evidence enough that people are going to reject it and counter it with their own opinions. Banning such opinions isn&#8217;t going to make them go away, and I suspect that the &#8220;prohibition&#8221; effect will simply make their words louder and heard more often.</p>
<p>Freedom of speech has limits, it has to in order for it to work. The point is though, that any limits need to be kept to a minimum, and it can usually be kept to just one, namely, any speech that incites people to commit crimes. You can say you dislikeÂ  someone, or that you hate them for whatever reason, but as soon as you encourage people to harm them, or kill them, or commit crimes against them, you are stepping out of the boundaries of freedom of speech. It is for these reasons that I do not support banning the Bible or the Qur&#8217;an for their content, but rather make sure that the content can be critised in every medium available, and why I support the right of the WBC to say what they do about homosexuals, atheists, muslims, etc. As long as I have my right to say what I think in return, then we have no problems. It is when you suppress freedom of speech, as the UK government has done in the cases of Geert Wilders and the WBC, that the entire system becomes worthless. We might as well not have freedom of speech in this country if our government can decide what is and what is not acceptable on the fly as it appears they currently think they can do.<br />
<h3>Possibly Related Posts:</h3>
<ul class="related_post">
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/11/03/the-people-who-left-wesboro-baptist-church/" title="The People Who Left Wesboro Baptist Church">The People Who Left Wesboro Baptist Church</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2010/02/10/open-letter-to-the-students-union/" title="Open Letter to the Student&#8217;s Union">Open Letter to the Student&#8217;s Union</a></li>
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<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2009/11/19/all-aboard-the-atheist-billboard/" title="All Aboard The Atheist&#8230;Billboard?!?">All Aboard The Atheist&#8230;Billboard?!?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2009/08/17/the-pledge-of-allegiance/" title="The Pledge of Allegiance">The Pledge of Allegiance</a></li>
</ul>




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		<title>Westboro Baptist Church to Picket UK?</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/02/18/westboro-baptist-church-to-picket-uk/</link>
		<comments>http://atheistblogger.com/2009/02/18/westboro-baptist-church-to-picket-uk/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Hayter</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[general]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[personal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gay]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the laramie project]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[westboro baptist church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=1155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[



Image via Wikipedia



According to this Telegraph article, the infamous Westboro Baptist Church is planning on picketing a production of &#8220;The Laramie Project&#8221; in Basingstoke. The production is about the torture and murder of Matthew Shepard, a young gay university student who was brutally attacked for his sexual orientation. The play is being performed by the [...]]]></description>
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<dt class="wp-caption-dt"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Westboro_Baptist_Church_in_New_York_by_David_Shankbone.jpg"><img title="w:Westboro Baptist Church at the United Nation..." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Westboro_Baptist_Church_in_New_York_by_David_Shankbone.jpg/202px-Westboro_Baptist_Church_in_New_York_by_David_Shankbone.jpg" alt="w:Westboro Baptist Church at the United Nation..." width="202" height="152" /></a></dt>
<dd class="wp-caption-dd zemanta-img-attribution" style="font-size: 0.8em;">Image via <a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Westboro_Baptist_Church_in_New_York_by_David_Shankbone.jpg">Wikipedia</a></dd>
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<p>According to <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4640967/Westboro-Baptist-Church-announces-first-anti-homosexuality-picket-in-Britain.html">this Telegraph article</a>, the infamous Westboro Baptist Church is planning on picketing a production of &#8220;The Laramie Project&#8221; in Basingstoke. The production is about the torture and murder of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard">Matthew Shepard</a>, a young gay university student who was brutally attacked for his sexual orientation. The play is being performed by the local &#8220;Freedom Youth&#8221; group, who say they won&#8217;t be intimidated by the church.</p>
<p>A few politicians have tried to stop the Phelps family from entering the UK, and whilst I understand their reasons for doing so, I hope they allow them to come in. This is one of those freedom of speech issues that is tough to call, but the fact is, this might be hate speech, but it isn&#8217;t incitement to murder or violence. They aren&#8217;t telling people to kill gay people; they reckon their God will do that. I think if they are allowed into the country, we will see an example of what freedom of speech should be about; namely, the Westboro Baptist Church will say whatever their opinion is, and everyone who disagree will loudly tell the Westboro Baptist Church what they think. This was illustrated quite nicely in America where groups dressed in white clothing would surround the church at their funeral pickets, effectively blocking them from the view of the mourning families.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking about going up to Basingstoke on Friday for this very reason. I want to listen to what they have to say, and respond with my own opinions. Of course, that is dependant on whether they are allowed into the country or not, and why I sincerely hope they are. In a free secular society, freedom of speech and expression must hold true, and I hope the government understands that the people will rise up in opposition to the church themselves, with no need for any official intervention.<br />
<h3>Possibly Related Posts:</h3>
<ul class="related_post">
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2009/06/03/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-believe-in-god/" title="What Would it Take for You to Believe in God?">What Would it Take for You to Believe in God?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2009/05/31/damn-you-fox/" title="Damn You FOX!">Damn You FOX!</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2009/03/05/the-noahs-ark-paradox/" title="The Noah&#8217;s Ark Paradox">The Noah&#8217;s Ark Paradox</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/11/30/what-the-bible-really-teaches-about-hell/" title="What The Bible Really Teaches About Hell">What The Bible Really Teaches About Hell</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/11/03/the-people-who-left-wesboro-baptist-church/" title="The People Who Left Wesboro Baptist Church">The People Who Left Wesboro Baptist Church</a></li>
</ul>




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		<item>
		<title>The People Who Left Wesboro Baptist Church</title>
		<link>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/11/03/the-people-who-left-wesboro-baptist-church/</link>
		<comments>http://atheistblogger.com/2008/11/03/the-people-who-left-wesboro-baptist-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 10:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Hayter</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fred phelps]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fundamentalist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nate phelps]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wbc]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[westboro baptist church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistblogger.com/?p=782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whenever a documentary is made of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), it always focuses on the church members, and hardly ever on people who have left the church. This is probably because those who did leave don&#8217;t want to talk about their experiences, but a journalist by the name of Trevor Melanson was astonished to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever a documentary is made of the <a href="http://www.godhatesfags.com/">Westboro Baptist Church</a> (WBC), it always focuses on the church members, and hardly ever on people who have left the church. This is probably because those who did leave don&#8217;t want to talk about their experiences, but a journalist by the name of Trevor Melanson was astonished to discover that his taxi driver was none other than Nate Phelps, the son of Fred Phelps, and brother to Shirley Phelps-Roper.</p>
<p>An interview took place afterwards, and many things were revealed about how children are brought up in the Phelps household, which included regular beatings.</p>
<blockquote><p>The mattock, a close cousin of the pickaxe, is used to dig through tough, earthy surfacesâ€”it loosens soil, breaks rock, and tears through knotted grass. Its handle is a three-foot wooden shaft, twice the density of a baseball bat and its dual-sided iron head is comprised of a chisel and a pick. It was Pastor Fred Phelpsâ€™s weapon of choice when beating his children according to his son, Nate Phelps.</p>
<p>â€œThe Bible says â€˜spare the rod, spoil the child,â€™â€ explained Nate, â€œand he would be screaming that out as he was beating us.â€ One Christmas night, Pastor Phelps hit Nate over 200 times with a mattockâ€™s handle, swinging it like a baseball player.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nate left the household when he was 18, before returning 3 years later, and then leaving again when it became too much. What is uplifting about this story is how even those brought up in such harsh conditions can come to the side of rationality.</p>
<blockquote><p>Nate agrees with prominent atheist and scientist Richard Dawkins, who has said that religion can be â€œreal child abuse.â€</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>â€œThe threat of eternal Hell is an extreme example of mental abuse,â€ Dawkins says on his website, â€œjust as violent sodomy is an extreme example of physical abuse.â€</p>
<p>â€œI couldnâ€™t agree more,â€ asserted Nate. â€œIn so many different ways we have abused children with religion over the centuries.â€</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>â€œI do declare myself an atheist now,â€ affirmed Nate, â€œalthough Iâ€™m willing to admit that thereâ€™s stuff in life that Iâ€™m not real clear on yet.â€</p></blockquote>
<p>Although Nate still lives with anxiety caused by his childhood suffering, he has a strong positive outlook for the future, saying &#8220;I just want peace. I want to not wake up fearful every morning&#8221;.</p>
<p>The full story can be read <a href="http://www.ubyssey.ca/?p=5624">here</a>, as well as the comments (the first is by Shirley Phelps-Roper and is a laugh). In other WBC news, it seems a non-existent being hates Barack Obama:</p>
<p><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/god-hates-obama.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-784" title="god-hates-obama" src="http://atheistblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/god-hates-obama.jpg" alt="" width="320" height="240" /></a><br />
<h3>Possibly Related Posts:</h3>
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<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/06/24/a-fundamentalist-christian-answers-the-atheist-thirteen/" title="A Fundamentalist Christian Answers The Atheist Thirteen">A Fundamentalist Christian Answers The Atheist Thirteen</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/04/10/council-for-secular-humanism-calls-for-rep-monique-davis-to-resign/" title="Council For Secular Humanism Calls For Rep. Monique Davis To Resign">Council For Secular Humanism Calls For Rep. Monique Davis To Resign</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/04/07/christianity-doesnt-work-as-advertised/" title="Christianity Doesn&#8217;t Work As Advertised">Christianity Doesn&#8217;t Work As Advertised</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/04/04/a-conversion-to-atheism/" title="A Conversion To Atheism">A Conversion To Atheism</a></li>
<li><a href="http://atheistblogger.com/2008/03/16/a-sick-christian/" title="A Sick Christian">A Sick Christian</a></li>
</ul>




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