A Fundamentalist Christian Answers The Atheist Thirteen
I’ve read a few of the current “Atheist Thirteen” meme posts that are going around, and that got me thinking. What would a fundamentalist Christian say if they had to answer the questions? Probably something like this:
Q1. How would you define “atheism”?
Satanism, devil-worship, false, Godless, infidels, idiotic, Hell-bound, unethical, evil…there are many words I could use. Atheists are evil wicked people with no morals who deserve Hell more than any murderer or rapist!
Q2. Was your upbringing religious? If so, what tradition?
Naturally. I was born a Baptist Christian and still follow our Lord Jesus Christ today. As a child I attended church every Sunday, and as I grew older I was born again and began to participate in church events, regularly attending services mid-week and at the weekends.
Q3. How would you describe “Intelligent Design”, using only one word?
Truth
Q4. What scientific endeavour really excites you?
As obvious in the previous question, Intelligent Design! It proves once and for all that Darwin and his followers are all trying to spread their wickedness and evil lies about Evilution. Only the truth will conquer their sham “science”!
Q5. If you could change one thing about the “atheist community”, what would it be and why?
There isn’t an Atheist community. My country is a Christian nation! The only communities are God’s communities. If any Atheists ever gather together God will smite them down for their evil, wicked, and sinful ways.
Q6. If your child came up to you and said “I’m joining the clergy”, what would be your first response?
I would thank the good Lord for blessing me with a child who is willing to do His work and fight the ways of evil.
Q7. What’s your favorite theistic argument, and how do you usually refute it?
I can’t refute the irrefutable. Look around at nature, the universe, everything. Does it look random to you? Does it look like everything is the result of chance or coincidence? No. Everything works in harmony and perfectly because it was made by a loving, caring, perfect God. Anyone who can’t see the beauty of the Lord’s work is a fool and will suffer for eternity in Hell.
Q8. What’s your most “controversial” viewpoint?
I have no controversial viewpoints, for my viewpoints are all Christian and they are the teachings of God. No government can dictate against the laws of God, and Jesus Christ will return and destroy the evil secularism, sending its followers to Hell.
Q9. Of the “Four Horsemen” (Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris) who is your favourite, and why?
Dawkins. His false book “The God Delusion” has converted many over to the way of Christ with its impossible arguments and evil doctrine. Having converted many people won’t save him from the lakes of fire and Satan though.
Q10. If you could convince just one theistic person to abandon their beliefs, who would it be?
Any believer in a false God. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, etc will all suffer in Hell for eternity for their wrong and evil beliefs. I would make them abandon these false Gods and worship Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
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There are some people who think exactly like your post, and fortunately they are a tiny minority.
Urgh… I feel defiled!
OMG- is this a joke? It’s just so silly. I just don’t understand how people can believe this nonsense.
Lisa,
This is partly a joke, partly an accurate response based on my own experience as a Christian and through conversations with fundamentalists.
I have no doubt that an actual fundie would respond with similar answers if given these questions, although I doubt they would ever actually agree to answer them anyway :P
I did come across a christian on a WOW blog that attempted to answer the meme.
so true
I was born a Baptist Christian
Shouldn’t that read “I was born again a Baptist Christian”?
AV,
The character I was going for was born into a Baptist family, but I’ve added the term “born again” later on :)
Whoops . . . my bad.
While I agree with the answers, the title of this post was misleading. I was expecting to see a response from an actual Christian.
The post should be titled, “How I think a fundamentalist Christian would answer The Atheist Thirteen.”
tedrick,
1) That title is too long.
2) That title wouldn’t get as many visitors.
3) Who cares what the title is, it’s the content of the article people should be worried about.
I made it very clear in the first paragraph that it wasn’t a Christian answering it but an ex-Christian. I still understand how I used to think so it’s not like I am just pulling these answers out of thin air. I changed the character to that of an American Baptist but that was all.
Well, I’m not a fundamentalist, at least don’t consider myself so, but I am a theist. I’ll give you my honest answers to the questions…
Q1. How would you define “atheism”?
Not believing in God.
Q2. Was your upbringing religious? If so, what tradition?
Yes. Catholic. Attended a parochial, attended church services daily and on Sunday.
Q3. How would you describe “Intelligent Design”, using only one word?
Actually, the first thing that comes to mind is web design so I’d say “usability”. I kinda doubt this was what the question was after but it was the first thing that came mind.
Q4. What scientific endeavour really excites you?
Nanotechnology. Not to long ago I saw a report, 60 Minutes I think, where a gentleman with no medical background discovered how radio waves could potially be used to kill cancer cells without damaging any surrounding tissue using nanites. From clothing to medicine nanite are cool critters!
Q5. If you could change one thing about the “atheist community”, what would it be and why?
Tough question since I don’t know enough about the “community” to give an intelligent answer. But if I had to give one, it would be the same as I might suggest for any other community… tolerance. I think everyone can learn to be more tolerant on something.
Q6. If your child came up to you and said “I’m joining the clergy”, what would be your first response?
I think my immediate response would be why. As a parent I’d think I’d want to know that they were certain and/or committed about whatever it was they wanted to pursue.
Q7. What’s your favorite theistic argument, and how do you usually refute it?
Whenever an “argument” centers around religion or lack thereof, folks are welcome to believe what they like as am I. I can’t say I really see a reason to refute it.
Q8. What’s your most “controversial” viewpoint?
The World Series bound Cubs are the best baseball team in Chicago. :)
If you lived in Chicago you’d understand.
Q9. Of the “Four Horsemen” (Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris) who is your favourite, and why?
Sorry, don’t know who they are.
Q10. If you could convince just one theistic person to abandon their beliefs, who would it be?
I wouldn’t. As I answered in an earlier question, folks are welcome to believe what they wish as am I.
DaveS, although it is good to see that you as a Theist do not honestly answer the questions in the way assumed in the post, the real reason that your "honest" answers differ from the "dishonest" ones is because, as you have stated yourself, you are not a fundamentalist, and the answers posted by Adrian are supposed to be from the point of view of a fundamentalist.
I know many fundamentalists, and although you are closer to them than Adrian is in terms of beliefs, their answers would in fact be more like the ones Adrian has posted, so there is some honesty to his post.
It occurs to me that being raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment is the fastest way to drive an intelligent person (in other words: a person who isn’t willing to swallow whatever they’re spoon-fed without questioning it first) away from God and Christianity in general.
There are, however, many different ways to interpret the Bible, and many of the misogynistic statements (and other things, like the parts that say not to get tattoos and braid your hair) have to be interpretted in the context of the culture. There are cultural norms encouraged by the prophets and writers of the Bible themselves, and there are rules and laws that are actually good things to do (Love thy neighbor as thyself, do unto others, Thou shalt not kill, etc). The tricky thing is to sort out things that are a matter of culture and those that are a matter of religious belief.
Of course, how you reconcile cultural misunderstandings with the idea that a book written by human beings is the infallible Word of God, I don’t know. It might be time for most Christians (myself included) to re-examine that belief.
Any true Christian would not be able to answer in this matter. Keep in mind, a person who claims to be Christian and answers in this matter will inherit the realm of hell. I personally, do not believe this mumbo jumbo.
Most of these answers are exaggerated, but that has already been addressed. As mentioned, they are partly joke, but there probably are still a small minority of Christians that might give similar answers.
I am a Born-Again Southern Baptist, so most folks would probably consider my views to be fundamental. Here are my responses to your questions.
1. How would you define atheism? A lack of belief in any higher being or power.
2. Was your upbringing religious? If so, what tradition? Yes, I was raised as a Christian. I attended the Methodist church as a young child and began attending Baptist services as a teenager.
3. How would you describe “Intelligent Design”, using only one word? Logical.
4. What scientific endeavor really excites you? I’m not very “scientific minded”, to be completely honost. However, I am spending time reviewing some of the more prominent research on evolution so that I can better understand the scientific arguments presented and interpret the data available for myself.
5. If you could change one thing about the “atheist community”, what would it be and why? As a Born-Again Christian, I would obviously like to see any person become a believer in God and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. Short of that, though, about the only thing I would like to see changed is the ridicule leveled at Christianity by some atheists. Things like calling Christians “mindless sheep” or the Bible “a collection of fairy tales”. I have no problem with someone not believing the same as I do, but I respect everyone’s belief system and I appreciate it when that respect is returned.
6. If your child came up to you and said “I’m joining the clergy”, what would be your response? I would encourage my children in whatever vocation they decide to pursue. If one decided to join the clergy, I would give them my support, but would also want to make sure they understand the burden of responsibility that goes with that choice.
7. What’s your favorite theistic argument, and how do you usually refute it? I’m really not sure what kind of answer you’re looking for. One recurring response I receive from atheists in their criticism of Christianity is the concept of Hell. They use that as “evidence” that, if God really exists, then He is wicked and evil, not benevolent. Whenever atheists respond about Hell, their posts usually have an angry tone to them. My question in that case is very simple, “If you don’t believe in the existence of God or Hell, then why does the mention of Hell upset you so much?” After several years of debating theology, I’ve only had a very small handful of atheists answser that in a calm manner.
8. What’s your most controversial viewpoint? That homosexuals are NOT automatically condemned to Hell and that a homosexual can get into Heaven just as easily as I can – WITHOUT renouncing their homosexuality.
9. Of the four horseman, who do you like the best? I don’t know any of them well enough to give a good answer.
10. If you could convince just one theistic person to abandon their beliefs, who would it be? I would have to agree with the answer you provided for this. Obviously, I would want someone who believes in a different god to change their belief to the Christian God. Of course, they probably think I am the one worshipping a false god and would like me to accept their god too. I respect that each religion feels their god is the “right” god. Of course, I feel the Christian God is the One True God, but I also think some of the other “gods” may be the same god I worship, just viewed differently due to cultural interpretations. In other words, I may not have the ONLY “right answer”.
Scott, in what way is it possible to view "Intelligent Design", a theory which has been proven to be scientifically erroneous, "logical"?
If you so want to convert people to Christianity because you are so sure you are correct, despite the lack of evidence to support your position, then surely you should stick with parts of the bible which have yet to be proven or disproven, rather than actually mentioning that you believe in intelligent design which is false. No one with any scientific knowledge will believe you are a proponent of the truth if one of your claims is completely false.
10 != 13
lolfail
This is really a stereotypical mockery of any theists.
Im an atheist, but this is just stupid.
Most christians don't think atheism is satanism, since most aren't retarded, just ignorant.
What youre doing to them, is not better than how they stereotype us [when they do].
What you don't seem to grasp is that this is not "stereotypical mockery of any Theists" at all, this is about fundamentalists…and "yes" most fundamentalists do consider Atheism to be Satanic.
You're right that most Christians don't think like that, but you've misinterpreted what this whole page is about in order to come to the conclusion that this is directed at most Christians.
As for saying that "most (Christians) aren't retarded", well, as I have pointed out, this is aimed at fundies (who do think like that) not Christians as a whole, and so no one is saying that Christians are retarded.
Being another atheist, I think it's safe to say I do not oppose you. However, you're committing the Straw Man Fallacy here. Please look it up, read about it, and avoid committing it again. Atheism seems to be branded as the logical and reasonable thing to do, so when one has faulty logic, those who don't consider there to be a need for logic can act like that one speaks for all of us.
As Adrian has rightly said, straw men can only be made if you are trying to prove or disprove something (it's when your argument to defend your point doesn't refute the actual position but a different position that is similar to the one argued), and seeing as this isn't an argument, therefore he isn't trying to prove or disprove anything, no strawmen have been made in his post.
I'm well aware of the Straw Man fallacy, and you only commit it when you are trying to prove (or disprove) something. I'm doing neither; I made the post to be humourous and mocking. It's a shame that some people don't have a sense of humour, especially since it has become clear that theism should be mocked at every turn.
reminds me of my mother…
Q1. How would you define “atheism”?
Lack of belief in a personal Supreme Being.
Q2. Was your upbringing religious? If so, what tradition?
Birth-mom was Christian but didn't go to church (age 0-8)
Adopted parents were agnostic/atheist. Attended Unity (New Age church) from age 13-14.
Q3. How would you describe “Intelligent Design”, using only one word?
Truth
Q4. What scientific endeavour really excites you?
Astrophysics, Parapsychology, Archaeology, Genetics, Zoology, etc.
Q5. If you could change one thing about the “atheist community”, what would it be and why?
It's condescention toward believers in God (especially Christians) and its attitude that faith in Christ signifies lack of intelligence.
Q6. If your child came up to you and said “I’m joining the clergy”, what would be your first response?
Great!
Q7. What’s your favorite theistic argument, and how do you usually refute it?
I think that arguing about God is pointless. Accepting Jesus Christ takes a leap of faith.
Q8. What’s your most “controversial” viewpoint?
I can honestly sing all the lyrics in Wes King's song "I believe":
Q9. Of the “Four Horsemen” (Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris) who is your favourite, and why?
I prefer the real Four Hoursemen: Conquest/Pestilence, War, Famine & Death.
Q10. If you could convince just one theistic person to abandon their beliefs, who would it be?
That's really a trick question because I can have the best arguments in the world, but I can never "convince" anyone on my own. The battle belongs to the Lord. He is the One Who hardens and softens the heart. Jesus said to proclaim the Good News.
Who would I rescue first out of a burning building? Probably the first person within reach. How could I pass anyone by?
Scott,
I know I am replying to this 8 months later and you will probably never read this, but I'd like to answer your question in what (I hope) will be (and come across as) a calm, polite and efficient manner.
“If you don’t believe in the existence of God or Hell, then why does the mention of Hell upset you so much?”
Because Hell DOES exist AS A CONCEPT and that concept is used to scare the innocent and naive into a belief that they might not have come to on their own (and one that may harm them or the society they live in). Simple as that. Hell, whether real or not, is used as the stick to force people to "behave", and while I understand that to some people, social and legal pressure isn't enough, that stick is used on far too many people who DON'T need it to a negative effect.
I had a friend in high school. She was the sweetest girl… maybe not a genius but definitely a tolerant and gentle person. When she was 16, her atheist/agnostic parents died in a car accident and she went to live with her fundamentalist Baptist aunt. This all happened right at the end of our grade ten year. When she returned to school in grade eleven, she was the epitome of a fundamentalist "hate everything" Christian. She tried to set me on fire (knowing that I was agnostic/atheist), tried to blow up the school science lab and threatened at least a half dozen teachers and students, telling them they deserved to die because they didn't believe in God's Word and Will.
She was committed to a psych ward before she managed to actually hurt anyone. I still go to visit her a few times a year, and while she's definitely improved, she still has bad days where she believes that anyone who doesn't follow fundamentalist Christian ways needs to die because they are dooming the world. As best the doctors can tell, the rigorous religious "training" her aunt put her through combined with the stress of her parents' deaths triggered a schizoid psychotic break.
It's an extreme example and I'm aware that it isn't applicable or extensible to all Judeo-Christian believers. However, the fact remains that the concept of Hell as wielded by preachers, believers and fundamentalists alike is a dangerous weapon at best, and does damage far too often for my comfort (read Nathan Phelps' account of his life as Fred's son for another "extreme" example of the damage the fear of Hell can do). However much I may not like the fact that consequences must exist to control those whose personal morals may not be the best, I accept that they must exist. That being said, telling a child that they can be eternally punished in Hell for things as varied as giving in to their adolescent hormones to swearing to disobeying their parents to not punishing other sinners is unconscionable in my mind. I have yet to see a religion that, as a whole, not only accepts free thought, questioning and decision but encourages and even requires it. Many religions use and abuse the naivety and trust that are a part of childhood and those that don't won't say no to the opportunity to do some early "teaching" despite the fact that the student isn't old enough to understand that adults don't always teach/tell/know the truth. Even our education system doesn't (or shouldn't) teach abstract concepts with varied viewpoints until children are at least teenagers.
So, as a summary to my answer, the reason "Hell" upsets me so much even though I don't believe in it (as a real place… I recognize its reality as a concept) is because it is used as a tool of terror to force acquiescence to a belief that a person might not otherwise choose to hold. Such beliefs NEVER stop at just preventing such obvious crimes as theft or murder (at least add belief in and following of Moses/Jesus/Mohammed/etc) and often also involve beliefs that may impede the equality and rights of others. It's the same reason religion as a whole tends to upset me. Rather than upholding the natural health and progress of the society they live in, many religions attempt to control the paths of learning, social development and acceptance to their benefit, regardless of the harm it might do. Often, those religions go on to prevent the abetting of the harm their beliefs do do (i.e. fighting against welfare/child services while trying to ban abortion, refusing/fighting the legal equality of common-law and marriage while trying to deny gay marriage). Some don't do this and I am quite happy to agree to disagree with the people whose beliefs are such that they allow for different opinions.
In the end, I don't have a problem with people believing what they want to believe. I have a problem with them allowing (and often forcing) their beliefs to negatively impact others. Hell is a very succinct example of this, because logically, a TRUE Christian wouldn't need Hell to be Christian because they would be doing it out of their love for Christ. Hell ends up being a conversion tool for those who don't really WANT to be Christian, and as not being Christian isn't inherently harmful… well, to me that means that the concept of Hell does more harm than good.
Sam-
I also believe that hell is used as a learning tool for children in Sunday School. I certainly remember being scared half witless when hell was explained to me as a child. probably had a lot to do with my making peace with my sister. Of course the impact softened over the years as I became aware of no cognitive proof that hell existed.
Now I am an atheist and could care less- but I certainly remember the fear as a child.
Fundamentalists like this who reside in the extreme lunatic fringe of the Christian movement do more to de-convert Christians and create atheists than the best atheist arguments ever could.
To speak like an irrational, credulous, closed minded, mental retard is the worst way to win people over.
Francesca, if you seriously think you have the best arguments in the world then you are sadly mistaken. None of your arguments are based on logic or evidence, and at least one of your answers is completely wrong. You're answers are so off-the-mark that I can't tell whether you are being honest or joking.
You have described Intelligent Design as "Truth", and yet intelligent design has been proven wrong undoubtedly, so you can neither claim to have the best argument in the world or a good knowledge of science. If you seriously think as you do I think you need to do your research.
You have also voiced that you don't like how we Atheists supposedly believe that "faith in Christ signifies lack in intelligence", but I have never heard an Atheist speak with that conviction. I also feel it is hypocritical for you to say this, seeing as you have already stated that intelligent design is "truth" to you, and belief in Intelligent Design usually does signify a lack of intelligence in the fields of logic, science, and general knowledge.
Francesca, if you seriously think you have the best arguments in the world then you are sadly mistaken. None of your arguments are based on logic or evidence, and at least one of your answers is completely wrong. You're answers are so off-the-mark that I can't tell whether you are being honest or joking.
You have described Intelligent Design as "Truth", and yet intelligent design has been proven wrong undoubtedly, so you can neither claim to have the best argument in the world or a good knowledge of science. If you seriously think as you do I think you need to do your research.
You have also voiced that you don't like how we Atheists supposedly believe that "faith in Christ signifies lack in intelligence", but I have never heard an Atheist speak with that conviction. I also feel it is hypocritical for you to say this, seeing as you have already stated that intelligent design is "truth" to you, and belief in Intelligent Design usually does signify a lack of intelligence in the fields of logic, science, and general knowledge.
Most Christians now accept Evolution, and so if Atheists did feel that Christianity meant a person had low intelligence, it would be Christians like you who still believe in ridiculous concepts like Intelligent Design that are to blame letting the rest of the world's Christians down, not us letting our beliefs down, because you are the one that believes in the invalid concept, not us.
Francesca, if you seriously think you have the best arguments in the world then you are sadly mistaken. None of your arguments are based on logic or evidence, and at least one of your answers is completely wrong. You're answers are so off-the-mark that I can't tell whether you are being honest or joking.
You have described Intelligent Design as "Truth", and yet intelligent design has been proven wrong undoubtedly, so you can neither claim to have the best argument in the world or a good knowledge of science. If you seriously think as you do I think you need to do your research.
You have also voiced that you don't like how we Atheists supposedly believe that "faith in Christ signifies lack in intelligence", but I have never heard an Atheist speak with that conviction. I also feel it is hypocritical for you to say this, seeing as you have already stated that intelligent design is "truth" to you, and belief in Intelligent Design usually does signify a lack of intelligence in the fields of logic, science, and general knowledge.
Most Christians now accept Evolution, and so if Atheists did feel that Christianity meant a person had low intelligence, it would be Christians like you who still believe in ridiculous concepts like Intelligent Design that are to blame for letting the rest of the world's Christians down, not us letting our beliefs down, because you are the one that believes in the invalid concept, not us.
Francesca, if you seriously think you have the best arguments in the world then you are sadly mistaken. None of your arguments are based on logic or evidence, and at least one of your answers is completely wrong. You're answers are so off-the-mark that I can't tell whether you are being honest or joking.
You have described Intelligent Design as "Truth", and yet intelligent design has been proven wrong undoubtedly, so you can neither claim to have the best argument in the world or a good knowledge of science. If you seriously think as you do I think you need to do your research.
You have also voiced that you don't like how we Atheists supposedly believe that "faith in Christ signifies lack in intelligence", but I have never heard an Atheist speak with that conviction. I also feel it is hypocritical for you to say this, seeing as you have already stated that intelligent design is "truth" to you, and belief in Intelligent Design usually does signify a lack of intelligence in the fields of logic, science, and general knowledge.
Most Christians now accept Evolution, and so if Atheists did feel that Christianity meant a person had low intelligence, it would be Christians like you who still believe in ridiculous concepts like Intelligent Design that are to blame for letting the rest of the world's Christians down, not us letting our beliefs down, because you are the one that believes in the invalid concept, not us. On the contrary, your irrational belief in intelligent design would actually validate an Atheists decision to believe of Christians as you think we do.
Francesca, if you seriously think you have the best arguments in the world then you are sadly mistaken. None of your arguments are based on logic or evidence, and at least one of your answers is completely wrong. You're answers are so off-the-mark that I can't tell whether you are being honest or joking.
You have described Intelligent Design as "Truth", and yet intelligent design has been proven wrong undoubtedly, so you can neither claim to have the best argument in the world or a good knowledge of science. If you seriously think as you do I think you need to do your research.
You have also voiced that you don't like how we Atheists supposedly believe that "faith in Christ signifies lack in intelligence", but I have never heard an Atheist speak with that conviction. I also feel it is hypocritical for you to say this, seeing as you have already stated that intelligent design is "truth" to you, and belief in Intelligent Design usually does signify a lack of intelligence in the fields of logic, science, and general knowledge.
Most Christians now accept Evolution, and so if Atheists did feel that Christianity meant a person had low intelligence, it would be Christians like you who still believe in ridiculous concepts like Intelligent Design that are to blame for letting the rest of the world's Christians down, not us letting our beliefs down, because you are the one that believes in the invalid concept, not us. On the contrary, your irrational belief in intelligent design would actually validate an Atheists decision to believe of some Christians as you think we do of all.